Necessity of a hard shell?
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If I'm planning on doing some ice climbing and winter rock climbing, is it necessary that I have a hard shell, or will a soft shell (with mid insulation layer) do the trick for shedding water, ice and wind? |
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In the North East I normally wear a soft shell if I even wear a shell. That is for winter mountaineering though. Very rarely have I had it wet out, and that was mainly in 1"+ / hr of heavy wet snow with 4 miles to go to the car. For ice climbing I wear a soft shell also, if the ice is wet you could have it wet out, mainly on the fore arms and chest if you are climbing a lot. FWIR I have a Marmot Superhero and a Mammut Laser, they both have their pluses (and minuses). For rock climbing you might be better off with a couple of layers (I like wool, poly, wool/poly blend) and a windshirt unless the conditions are really rotten, then I doubt you will be rock climbing anyways. |
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In most situations a soft shell will be preferable to a hard shell. Unless you know it's going to be REALLY wet, leave the hard shell at home. A synthetic base layer, optional fleece, soft shell, and big puffy belay jacket with a hood will cover you almost all of the time. If you're sweating inside a hard shell, that could be a bigger problem than any outside moisture it repels. Despite what manufacturers tell you, they're not that breathable. |
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I climb predominantly in the Adirondacks and although I have climbed in soft shells for short periods of time, I always go back to my hardshells. I typically wear a patagonia R1 hooded fleece and a light wool base layer underneath. On my legs I wear a hardshell bib which keeps my midsection toasty. I have several belay jackets to go over this depending on the temps, but rarely is it cold enough to need more underneath my shell. |
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I only use a softshell, but for some reason i always pack a hardshell. I have never run into wetting out a softshell here in Colorado, but then again it isn't super wet here. That being said i am generally warmer than most people and a softshell works great with a couple layers underneath. I always make sure the hood can hide and that there are pit zips and harness friendly pockets as well. Simply put a great softshell goes a long way. I would look at Haglofs, Mammut and Rab for some of the best. |
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Alright, so I'm thinking a mid-weight top/bottom base layer, a fleece or two depending on conditions, and then a soft-shell. And possibly a belay jacket once I know how the system works as is. |
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Always bring a down or synthetic jacket. |
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Alright, |
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Brendan Blanchard wrote:Alright, So I'd want to get a down/synthetic insulating layer to go under the soft-shell with the system I listed above, and a belay jacket for when it gets really cold.If you do get a puffy midlayer... make sure its a vest... Otherwise you may not be able to swing your tools. you also dont want to sweat out. |
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Ksween wrote: If you do get a puffy midlayer... make sure its a vest... Otherwise you may not be able to swing your tools. you also dont want to sweat out.Thanks, if the layer is going to be under the soft-shell, is a fleece a good option for being warm, but not bulky or restrictive, or is some other synthetic a better idea? |
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No hard shell needed, I recomend you read the chapter on clothing in Mark twights "Extreem Alpanism" he does a great job of defining the use of a light weight action suit and a belay jacket! |
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Brendan, |
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Thanks Cor, my only reason for trending towards a soft-shell is I tend to sweat quite a bit, and I'm naturally pretty warm having been born and raised in NH and wearing t-shirts through November sometimes ;) |
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Brendan, |
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Regarding puffy layers, I normally size mine to go over my outer layer. I whip out the puffy layers for the inactive times (food/rest stop, belay duty, camera duty, summit break). I don't remember every a time even at -15F days where I had a puffy on under a shell when moving. If it gets really cold I put the hard shell on over my soft shell until I get warmed up, then the hard shell comes off again. Not for ice climbing exactly where getting wet is a factor, but a good share of the winter I don't even wear a shell layer when we are moving fast, just 2 short sleeve base layers and 1 long sleeve. I like Merino best for the base layers. |
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Brendan, Nathan Stokes wrote:Many types of quality gloves would be a better investment than a pricey hardshell IMHO.+1, Gloves are clutch. |
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I hear there is a new company coming out in 2012 that will combine the attributes of hard-shell and soft - shell. Better than anyone has before. |
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Brendan Blanchard wrote:Alright, So I'd want to get a down/synthetic insulating layer to go under the soft-shell with the system I listed above, and a belay jacket for when it gets really cold.Don't size your shell, be it soft or hard, to fit over a puffy layer. Size it to fit over a shirt and a light fleece or lightweight synthetic insulated sweater max. You will be warmer with less dead air this way and can get away wearing slightly less clothing underneath. Of course you will need to pay more attention to the fit making sure it isn't binding when you reach up high. When climbing wear the absolute minimum to stay warm and dry. When belaying throw on your warm coat over everything else. The warm coat will help dry out any moisture you've accumulated during the pitch. |
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I live in Colorado and it's a pretty dry climate out here. Hence, all I usually need for my climbing October-April is a soft shell top and bottoms. I've climbed in North Conway in February and March, when it was raining when I was on Repentance and on the Frankenstein cliffs and was glad for a hard shell GTX jacket. I don't know where you do your climbing but regional climates can make a difference as to what you wear for protection. |
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I find that I wear soft shells 95% of the time, whether on ice, rock, mountaineering, or bc skiing/split boarding because they breath so much better. I've really liked my arcteryx soft shell. That said, the other 5% sucks without a little more protection from wind and water. I hated carrying a hard shell that I seldom used. I usually carry a Marmot Precip jacket in my pack now. It works great even in pouring water or sitting on snow, weighs almost nothing and packs very small. It also costs $100 or less. I don't think it would last anywhere near as long as an expensive hard shell if I wore it all the time, but I don't. I've had mine for a couple years now and it still looks new because I rarely need it. It is also a versatile piece of gear for the months of the year when you need rain gear but not a heavier hard shell.I agree with spending on the gloves. They make a BIG difference for me. Good luck! |
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I climb mostly in the ADK's and I use the ROM jacket. It's great. nice fit so it doesn't bunch up and making looking for screws on your harness a pain, fits over a helmet and breathes way better than any hardshell ever would |