Nanga Parbat, Pakistan - climbers gunned down....

m.huffpost.com/us/entry/348…

:(

This is truly unfortunate, and I can assure you that the majority of Pakistanis in the U.S. and in Pakistan are deeply saddened by this incident. This is the first time something like this has happened in northern Pakistan.

There is a very narrow belt along the Karakoram Highway thats unsafe - specifically the area around Chilas town and Buner Village. Most expeditions headed towards K2, Gasherbrums, Broad Peak or the bigwall destinations avoid this spot by flying directly from Islamabad to Skardu.

On my website I have a blog about security concerns in Pakistan:

unclimbed.com/security-conc…

For those of you heading to Pakistan this summer, please do not cancel your trip!!! Its only through interactions that stereotypes are broken. If you need any details about the incident please do not hesitate to contact me.

Ive got some more information about a possible motivation for the attack. The Ukrainian team that was attacked had hoisted a Nepalese Flag at base-camp and performed a Puja (Hindu worship) ceremony at base-camp prior to the incident.

This is the least liberal part of Pakistan, and the news of a Puja ceremony (which is never done in predominantly Muslim-Pakistan) must have have been a huge deal.

By no means does that 'justify' killing someone, but is explains why this particular group was attacked amongst the 50 foreign climbers there.

Here is a photo of the Puja ceremony:

grynas.delfi.lt/alpinistai/…

Ali, thank you for your insight. I heard about this on BBC this morning, and I was really curious if they were climbers because the BBC didn't elaborate what the victims were doing in that region. I think it says a lot that this is the first incident of it's kind up there. If I wasn't so broke, I wouldn't be deterred at all.

The BBC story made it sound like the Pakistani Taliban took responsibility for the attack and that the attack was in retaliation for a recent US drone strike. It's unfortunate that the drone strike happened at all, and that more innocent people were killed as a result. None of these victims were Americans, yet they were killed for the actions of the American government. We all know that if they were Americans there would be some serious saber rattling and this would be a headline consuming "scandal".

As Americans, we must keep pressuring our government to end the illegal and immoral practice of drone strikes. Our government is violating another sovereign nation's territorial rights, as protected by decades of legal precedent and well respected international norms, just to execute someone extra-judicially. For those of you unfamiliar with the term "extra-judicial execution" look it up. It's one of the most unconstitutional practices that we engage in. According to our constitution, it doesn't matter if you're Mother Teresa or Adolf Hitler, if you commit crimes in or against the US, you have the right to a fair trial and you are presumed innocent until proven guilty.

Tony,
I agree with what you wrote. Im glad this incident wont deter you from visiting Pakistan. I feel embarrassed and the news has made my family and I really upset. For years I have given slide shows in the US and in Pakistan I have tried hard to educate the locals in Pakistan about alpinism and how the actions of the government dont reflect the sentiments of the average person.

The worst part is that the locals were not involved in this at all. Their villages have helped mountaineers for over a century now. Reinhold Messner was rescued by villagers from the exact same valley as this incident. Unfortunately the attacks were carried out by a group linked with the Taliban and that has its origins in Uzbekistan.

The prime minister has fired all the top police officials in that area, the army is now in-charge and security has been tightened such that nothing like this happens again.

Make no mistake the climbers were murdered because someone or a group of people thought it would be a good idea to kill. I agree violence is reciprocal but ultimately it is a decision finalized by the gunman, a human being, not a government. Attempts at producing alleged motivations and illusory justifications via third party statements and reporting is commonplace and disheartening. Is it possible to pay respect without politicizing an already shitty situation?

youtube.com/watch?v=c4MBEEH…

kwyatt wrote:Make no mistake the climbers were murdered because someone or a group of people thought it would be a good idea to kill. I agree violence is reciprocal but ultimately it is a decision finalized by the gunman, a human being, not a government. Attempts at producing alleged motivations and illusory justifications via third party statements and reporting is commonplace and disheartening. Is it possible to pay respect without politicizing an already shitty situation?

Thank you.

Thank you Ali. Thanks for being an ambassador for alpinists, Pakistani's and humans.

Maybe we should all stop killing each other and go climbing.

Was the last shooting at climbers done back 10 some years ago when Beth and Tommy got taken hostage in in one of the Kz'stans?

Thats right Woodchuck, it was about 10 years ago.

As far as taking ammunition with you - thats kinda how this mess started in the first place. I dont need to get into details as to how the Taliban even started and who funded them to fight the Russians.

I hear there's good climbing in India. If I'm ever in the position to take a Himalayan expedition, they or Nepal will be getting my money.

Ah Pakistan...the training ground for the insurgency that uses Afghanistan for it's playground and slips back across the border into Pakistan when they are done.

Maybe the drone strikes would be more accurate and effective if Pakistan would admit their blind eye is the same as sponsoring the insurgency.

Interesting to see if the Paks hunt these killers down in a publicized way.

Thanks Ali - good to get some real info about the tragic events.

Mike,
The "Paks" will git er done, "smoke those rag-heads out" get the "hajis" on the run. We've got some real straight shooters on this, in-fact they've already arrested 35 suspects.

Im sure Wankel from TexASS will appreciate my lingo here. You know everything's bigger in Texas (people, trucks etc) but unfortunately the Good Lord blessed Pakistan with the biggest mountains around. 168 out of the 200 peaks in the world over 7000 meters, and 6 of the world's 8000 meter peaks including K2 - which is not as fun to climb without ladders and fixed ropes as Everest is - but still a decent peak.

I'd rather see a drone strike than leave it up to the Pakistanis.

Ali Jaffri wrote:Mike, The "Paks" will git er done, "smoke those rag-heads out" get the "hajis" on the run. We've got some real straight shooters on this, in-fact they've already arrested 35 suspects. Im sure Wankel from TexASS will appreciate my lingo here. You know everything's bigger in Texas (people, trucks etc) but unfortunately the Good Lord blessed Pakistan with the biggest mountains around. 168 out of the 200 peaks in the world over 7000 meters, and 6 of the world's 8000 meter peaks including K2 - which is not as fun to climb without ladders and fixed ropes as Everest is - but still a decent peak.

The pakmil can't handle anything. It is one embarrassment after another. Beautiful country that has pockets of thriving tourism mudied by a religious war. But maybe it was Allah that did the blessing in that country :p

I think it is actually pretty offensive for you to use the RH slang.

Im pleasantly surprised that you found the RH slang offensive - thats a good start.

Ali Jaffri wrote:Im pleasantly surprised that you found the RH slang offensive - thats a good start.

The war on terror is too profitable for anybody in that country to do anything about it.
The same could be partly true for the ISAF folks across the border in Afghanistan. However, those forces are actually making a difference in stemming some of the violence.

Embarrassing drone strikes wouldn't be such a problem if Pakistan would become willing partners in the fight.

It is going to be very interesting to see what happens to this part of the world when ISAF pulls out in a year.

"Thank you Ali. Thanks for being an ambassador for alpinists, Pakistani's and humans."

+1

"I'd rather see a drone strike than leave it up to the Pakistanis.".

-1 - Dipshit comment.

This is a COMMUNITY climbing forum, not a place for people to discuss Billy Graham's latest ideals.