Moving west, where should I live?

I'm moving out west from Pittsburgh this fall. I'm hoping to leave by mid-September, making 10-14 day stops in both RRG and HCR. My plan right now is to settle somewhere in Utah and I've been specifically considering the Provo area. The reason for this post, however, is that I'd like some input on good places to live. I work as a server/bartender and will find a job anywhere, so my only motives are proximity to climbing (I climb mostly sport, right now up to 10c, though I would like to find a trad mentor in the next year) and I'd like to find a smaller, more laid back city/town, that is just a good place to live in general. I'm not dead set on Utah though, so any suggestions/advice are appreciated!!

Thanks, Antonio

EDIT: Scratch Provo, now thinking SLC, Durango, or Grand Junction.

What's drawing you to Provo? It might not have the best market for prospective bartenders.

Hey Antonio. As a utah native I can say you've got your heart in the right place, but if you plan on bar tending/ serving Provo is gonna shit on your pancakes. Plenty of restaurants down there. Not so many bars. Consequently you're gonna have to drive 35+ minutes if you plan on working in slc. Why not just move to sugar house? Plenty of bars and if you're coming from Pitt you're probably not gonna be stoked on Provo. Just my 2¢ , but If I were you I'd post looking for places to rent out. Also if you have your heart set on the west good luck! You got this.

Antonio, if proximity to climbing was your only concern, than Utah or more specifically southern Utah would be ground zero. That is why I live here more than half the year. However, only place that might be worse to make a living as a bartender over Provo, might be St. George. Tourists are way better tippers than Mormons who are a bit notorious about stuff like that. I would think you would be much better served (pun intended) in a resort community, like Tahoe or Telluride. Yes housing and groceries are more, but these communities work hard at subsidizing the working class so the wealthy have plenty of service. I have lived in Incline Village, NV, and Canmore, Alberta and can say the folks I climbed with who were in the service industry lived quite well in those communities. Both of those areas are well situated for four season adventure, but I admit neither offer stellar rock out their backdoor. However, Telluride is close enough to Moab and the Black which are incredible trad destinations, and Tahoe offers good access to the eastern Sierra trad alpine destinations like the Incredible Hulk.

For a rock climber who has little interest in backcountry skiing or ice climbing, St. George is truly ground zero...Zion, Red Rock, Sedona, Moab, City of Rocks, Joshua Tree, Eastern Sierra, Yosemite, Needles, CA...all half day trips or less and of course you can sport climb until your hearts content locally without doing a repeat for several years. However the restaurant/bar biz is non-existent in St. George. Without decent liquor receipts, due both to religious and government restraints, chefs and restaurateurs can't make much of a living here not to mention Mormons are quite price point sensitive at all economic levels (read conservative). Springdale (Zion) offers a few places where a server can make a living (I climb with several who have done that their whole lives there), but not a bartender. That is due to tourism of course. Moab would also offer good servers that opportunity due to tourism. Provo would be tough for a bartender to make any money at all and SLC rock climbing does not compare to these other destinations. It by no means has a small town feel either, which you mention. It does offer some ice climbing and backcountry skiing though.

I felt inspired to write you because quite a few years ago I was heading back to Canada with one of my Canadian ice partners during the winter and we decided to stop and climb the ice routes in Provo Canyon for a few days. On our first night we went looking for beer (and a good bartender) and food in Provo...thinking it was a college town...we thought that would be an easy task....it took a bit of driving around before it occurred to me why that might not be such a good idea. My friend from Canada would have never thought about it, that was all on me. Good Luck.

ps, the Pittsburgh bar scene is outstanding....spent a full weekend attending a Patriot-Steeler game and had a blast getting out and about in your local neighborhoods...

Nothing is gonna beat the east coast bar scene, coming from an undergrad at PSU I can say living in Utah took some getting used to. Aside from the suggestions above I'd say Utah is a poor idea for a bartender. Why not Boise, Id (it's growing), Las Vegas, or somewhere in Az, or NM.

Edit: don't get us wrong Utah is an amazing place and there's plenty of job opportunity for all professions, there's still plenty of people that drink and eat all across the state, however, if I were going all in (as far as your decision is concerned) Id pick somewhere with a little more security with your profession.

All great advice, thanks, guys. I'm not dead set on having a job in the service industry. It's just the only field in which I have any real experience. Can anyone comment on either Flagstaff/Sedona, AZ or Grand Junction, CO? How about Wyoming/Idaho?

Definitely sounds like you want to live in Utah. Best state in the nation!

Sugarhouse/Avenues are pretty great. Good climbing 20 minutes out the door. Easy to drive to southern UT, CO, ID, WY, even eastern Sierra. Not that you need to go that often. The winter inversion is a downside of Northern Utah though. The Wasatch and the Uintas have a lot to offer. Bartender/service industry works in SLC and Park City, twenty minutes drive. My two cents.

Sedona/Oak Creek Canyon/Flagstaff is a more isolated location climbing wise, which seemed to be your number one priority. I personally love climbing the Sedona towers , but most folks I guide or take down there come away thinking the rock is a bit soft and cracks wide for them. Sedona to Red Rock is 4.5 hrs vs 2 hrs from southern Utah for example Cochise is now only 4.5 hrs though which is an awesome place. Moab is now 6hr vs 5hr from St. George say. Eastern Sierra is now 9 vs 7...etc.

But it is a true resort town with moneyed tourists from LA and Phoenix which would net more revenue for a service employee for sure than anywhere in Utah. You won't find big routes in Sedona or Cochise like we have in Zion for example but the towers are adventurous as hell...I always have them to myself when I am on them. Stout desert cracks galore on some of the walls. I like it. Bend, OR...Sedona, AZ have the same vibe to me....tourism with a bit of local outdoor culture.....not Canmore, Alberta where hard core alpinists live, work and climb together....but if I was single, I sure would rather live there then anywhere in Utah...you should check it out for sure.

Hey Antonio, Durango Colorado is just a thought. I have been living here for five years now and the climbing is great. Also we are relatively close to Utah and many more climbing locations deeper into Colorado. The town is based around the service industry with plenty of bars and resteraunts to get a job at. Just my two cents and good luck making a decision.

I still find myself being drawn to SLC area. Seems to have the best concentration of good sport climbing with Cottonwood Canyons, AF, Rock Canyon, etc all pretty within day trip distance. But I'll definitely be looking at other areas. I don't need to make a decision for a month or two yet. So any more suggestions are greatly appreciated. Thanks!

+1 for Durango (a very memorable 6 months of my life) More restaurants, bars and hotels per capita than the average American town...not far behind San Francisco from what I've been told.

Also Grand Junction has great potential...though I have only visited

Good Luck

Do your research on GJ. You might get really surprised. It's the best Utah city in Colorado.

SLC is not a year round climbing area, close but if you like to ski the off months are great.

So with all the advice thus far, I think I've narrowed it down a bit. If anyone has any further beta (rent, weather, climbing gyms, specific neighborhoods to look at, etc) on the following cities that would be really helpful:

1) SLC (and suburbs)-- it seems like the LDS population is under 50% in SLC so I'm wondering if it's a bit less conservative, with more possibilities for work in the service industry. Seems like there's TONS of sport climbing within 1.5 hours.

2)Durango, CO -- highest restaurant per capita in CO would make it easy to find work. Also more of a small town which appeals to me. Seems like there are some decent sport climbing options in the 1.5 hour range: Lemon Reservoir, Golf Wall, East Animas, and Cascade Canyons, but not as much as SLC offers.

3)Grand Junction, CO -- the obvious plus here is being an hour from Rifle, but it seems like there also a bit of bouldering in the area. How's the job market here?

Travis Haussener wrote:. Why not Boise, Id (it's growing), Las Vegas, or somewhere in Az, or NM.

While Las Vegas is one of my favorite cities, it is quite possibly one of the worst cities in America to move to if you are looking to stay long term. NV has one of the highest unemployment rates in the nation, and LV has a very serious water problem. The city is going to run completely out of water in under 15 years, and there are no known solutions at this time beyond decreasing the population significantly. That means if you buy a house now, in the future its value will almost certainly drop to nothing if they cant solve this water problem.

Ogden is worth considering, it's a bit cheaper than SLC and I can walk to some decent climbing without getting in my car from my house. That being said you will definitely be driving down to SLC to climb it's better and there is ALOT more there. (but your closer to the city of rocks and areas to the north)

Travis Larsen wrote:Ogden is worth considering, it's a bit cheaper than SLC and I can walk to some decent climbing without getting in my car from my house. That being said you will definitely be driving down to SLC to climb it's better and there is ALOT more there. (but your closer to the city of rocks and areas to the north)

Will I find work bartending/serving in Ogden?

20 kN wrote: While Las Vegas is one of my favorite cities, it is quite possibly one of the worst cities in America to move to if you are looking to stay long term. NV has one of the highest unemployment rates in the nation, and LV has a very serious water problem. The city is going to run completely out of water in under 15 years, and there are no known solutions at this time beyond decreasing the population significantly. That means if you buy a house now, in the future its value will almost certainly drop to nothing if they cant solve this water problem.

This is good advice for the most part, but perhaps not quite relevant to the OP. I'm based out of the Vegas area currently, and I agree that while it is a fun place to be for now, it is maybe not where I would want to make my home permantly. I don't think I'd want to raise kids in this city, for instance. But as a place to hang out for a while in your 20s, it is great. The OP's profile says he is 23, and it sounds like he needs to find a place to go to work for a while, climb a bunch, and just GTFO of Pittsburgh. For this, Vegas is great. Tons of sport climbing, trad climbing, and bouldering, and there is certainly a lot going on in the service industry / bartending. That said, it isn't a "smaller, laid back town", as the OP wanted. It is a big, heinous city, and it isn't for everyone.

The Provo area has a lot of sport climbing, although the fact that the OP wants to move there to work as a bartender is kind of hilarious. I think he may need to do a bit more "cultural research".

Another place for the OP to consider is Bend (Oregon). Fun place, nice mellow town, lots of good climbing (Smith Rock), lots of breweries, etc. Golden, CO is another great spot.

Lastly, as Dow aluded to above, ski towns are a good choice if you want to live in the mountains, work int he service industry, and, of course, ski and climb. Mammoth Lakes, any of the Tahoe towns, Telluride, Aspen, and various others all have good climbing options.

JCM wrote: it sounds like he needs to find a place to go to work for a while, climb a bunch, and just GTFO of Pittsburgh.

Hit the nail on the head there.

JCM wrote: the fact that the OP wants to move there to work as a bartender is kind of hilarious.

I want to move there for climbing...hoping just to find work. Correct me if I'm wrong but after doing a bit of "cultural research" it seems like there's a fair amount of breweries/brew pubs in SLC. Seems like I could at least find something there. Either way, I appreciate the input, JCM!

Antonio Caligiuri wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong but after doing a bit of "cultural research" it seems like there's a fair amount of breweries/brew pubs in SLC. Seems like I could at least find something there. Either way, I appreciate the input, JCM!

Yeah, as a non-Mormon, outdoorsy type, SLC would be a much much much better place to live, culturally, than Provo. You could find yourself a great niche in SLC. Provo, probably not.