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Metolius Ultimate Daisy Chain
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By csproul
From Rancho Cordova, CA
Nov 14, 2012
Summit of Wolf's Head with Pingora in the background

Now you're talking...that is a better solution and not one that I had thought of on my own. Still, in the heat (cold?) of the moment I doubt I would have done what you describe since I had pretty much gone into "get the hell out of here as fast as I can" mode.

I still think that reality is that climbers will continue to place themselves in situations where they are above the anchor on static slings. It's avoidable in most all free-climbing situations, but I still don't know how to completely avoid it while aid climbing. I know I/we shouldn't but I'm sure we'll continue to occasionally do so. I know that in the rare situations that I do it, I am very comfortable that I will not fall unless something extraordinary happens. In that case, I might be hurt and it will be my own fault...but at least I probably won't plummet to the ground. I guess we'll just not agree.


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By Reginald McChufferton
Nov 14, 2012

In answer to your question about how to avoid daisy falls when aid climbing. (If that's something you lose a lot of sleep over)

1) Don't fall.

2) Clip the rope off to your last piece before committing to the next one and make sure your belayer is paying attention. If you fall, the rope will catch you or at least absorb some impact before you reach the end of your daisy. You need an attentive belayer or if you're soloing you need to be mindful of the position of your chosen device. Adjustable daisies can be lengthened to allow the rope to do more/all of the work.

3) If you're trying to transition to a sketchy piece get low in your aiders on your last piece to ensure that you won't be factor 2ing onto your daisy if the new piece blows. Adjustable daisies make this much more practical because you can adjust them to only give you a wee bit of slack should the new piece blow before you have time to clean the aider/daisy off the last one.

Like I said, not that hard.

If you're factor 2ing onto your daisies you should probably think about taking up a different hobby. I don't care what your daisies are made out of they are NOT designed to be fallen on and this constant talk about nylon being "safer" than dyneema is really just mental masturbation. If you're counting on any static material to safely arrest your fall you are delusional.


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By csproul
From Rancho Cordova, CA
Nov 15, 2012
Summit of Wolf's Head with Pingora in the background

Reginald McChufferton wrote:
In answer to your question about how to avoid daisy falls when aid climbing. (If that's something you lose a lot of sleep over) 1) Don't fall. 2) Clip the rope off to your last piece before committing to the next one and make sure your belayer is paying attention. If you fall, the rope will catch you or at least absorb some impact before you reach the end of your daisy. You need an attentive belayer or if you're soloing you need to be mindful of the position of your chosen device. Adjustable daisies can be lengthened to allow the rope to do more/all of the work. 3) If you're trying to transition to a sketchy piece get low in your aiders on your last piece to ensure that you won't be factor 2ing onto your daisy if the new piece blows. Adjustable daisies make this much more practical because you can adjust them to only give you a wee bit of slack should the new piece blow before you have time to clean the aider/daisy off the last one. Like I said, not that hard. If you're factor 2ing onto your daisies you should probably think about taking up a different hobby. I don't care what your daisies are made out of they are NOT designed to be fallen on and this constant talk about nylon being "safer" than dyneema is really just mental masturbation. If you're counting on any static material to safely arrest your fall you are delusional.


All pretty good advice...I'll definitely keep it in mind.

I still disagree about it being "mental masturbation". You can go your whole climbing career and never fall onto a sling. And it's a good goal to have. But there is nothing wrong with thinking about the consequences should it happen, and trying to mitigate them if at all possible...especially since those consequences can be severe. And if you're talking about a specialized piece of gear like a PAS or daisy or whatever (not talking about a rack-full of slings) it's not like there is any huge benefit to using something that is not nylon.

Anyway, it sounds like I'll not convince you otherwise...so thanks for the aid tips and I'll be sure to put them into practice. I doubt I'll take up a new hobby...I've been at this one for close to 20 years and I kind of like it.


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By Reginald McChufferton
Nov 15, 2012

csproul wrote:
I've been at this one for close to 20 years and I kind of like it.


In those 20 years, how many times have you factor 2ed onto a daisy?

Like I said, mental masturbation.


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By csproul
From Rancho Cordova, CA
Nov 15, 2012
Summit of Wolf's Head with Pingora in the background

Reginald McChufferton wrote:
In those 20 years, how many times have you factor 2ed onto a daisy? Like I said, mental masturbation.

In that time I've also never had anyone factor 2 onto an anchor...doesn't mean that I don't build my anchors to withstand it should it happen. Is that mental masturbation too?


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By bearbreeder
Nov 15, 2012

THe problem i see around here is newer climbers putting themselves in bad situations because they believe that a nylon sling, a beal dyna connection or a purcell will save their azz if they fall ...

There are alot of top ropes here where and anchor is right over or on the edge ... I see people going over the edge with slack in their tether all the time

Then there are those who run around telling you your pas etc is unsafe cause you cant fall on it


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