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Meanwhile in India...

Original Post
EugeneK · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2011 · Points: 95
Tom Mulholland · · #1 Cheese Producing State! · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 50

Tie a knot in the end of the rope!

Tim Stich · · Colorado Springs, Colorado · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 1,520

[It seemed he wasn't aware that his rope wasn't touching the ground," Sandeep Hooda, a professional dancer present at the spot, said. Organizers insisted that Shailendra was primarily to blame.]

Yes indeed.

Ryan Williams · · London (sort of) · Joined May 2009 · Points: 1,245

I think it's interesting that people make fun of this situation without offering the usual "thoughts for the family" sort of comment. If this had happened to a climber in Eldo, everyone would be saying how they felt bad for the family and that we should "be safe out there." I don't disagree with anything that has been posted... I'm just sayin.

Lee Green · · Edmonton, Alberta · Joined Nov 2011 · Points: 51

Granted I'm new to climbing, only 1 yr of experience, but I'm puzzled by why people don't routinely tie stopper knots. I've been a sailor for decades. We tie stoppers in most everything, just as a regular safety precaution, though usually the worst consequence is nothing more than a line whipping around loose. (A jib sheet in a wind can lay a nasty welt on you, but it's not fatal, unless you go forward without a harness to secure it and go overboard.) Yet climbers don't seem to make stoppers a habit when the consequences are death. Can anyone clue me in to why stopper knots are not standard practice in climbing/rappelling?

Finn The Human · · The Land of Ooo · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 106
Lee Green wrote:Can anyone clue me in to why stopper knots are not standard practice in climbing/rappelling?
Climbers are too good for stopper knots. F*** gravity.

But seriously, this is really unfortunate... I never like seeing news like this.
mark felber · · Wheat Ridge, CO · Joined Jul 2005 · Points: 41

1. If you neglect to untie the stopper knot before pulling the rap line, your rope will be stuck by the stopper knot. This is easy to do if you finish a rappel well to one side of the rap anchor.

2. The stopper knot can get jammed in a crack during the rappel, or caught on something.

3. Nobody wants to admit that they're dumb enough to rap off the end of the rope.

4. Laziness.

These are not necessarily good reasons, just reasons.

Ryan Williams · · London (sort of) · Joined May 2009 · Points: 1,245
markf wrote:1. If you neglect to untie the stopper knot before pulling the rap line, your rope will be stuck by the stopper knot. This is easy to do if you finish a rappel well to one side of the rap anchor. 2. The stopper knot can get jammed in a crack during the rappel, or caught on something. 3. Nobody wants to admit that they're dumb enough to rap off the end of the rope. 4. Laziness. These are not necessarily good reasons, just reasons.
+1.

I mainly don't do it because it takes extra time. The time to tie the knot is negligible, but the time to get to the end of the rope and untie it every time I pull the rope just seems a waste. Also, I've had more than one knot get stuck in a crack... that sucks.

I just don't see how someone can rappel for 50 meters or so w/o looking down to see the end of the rope flapping in the wind.
Evan1984 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2007 · Points: 30

This is a sad and preventable accident.

My personal experience with stopper knots is interesting. I've more or less always known that you **should*** tie them, but I, like many, was not particularly religious about it.

One time, I was on a low angle, multi-pitch rap at dusk. I was cruising down the rope expecting the next set of anchors to be 10 yards below. Suddenly, I caught the stopper knots in my hand and realized that I had gone about 10 feet past my anchors.

That turned me into a born again stopper knot person.

Edit: I'd also like to add that the problems of forgetting to untie stopper knots and lost time become much less the more you make stopper knots part of your routine. We don't think squeeze checks are too much time and we don't think forget to unbuckle our seat belts because these are all safety steps that have become habit.

Evan

€ $t0& 960 €® · · Colorado · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 55

i always have an autoblock attached to my leg loop of my harness and use it on multi pitch raps and single pitch climbs when i have to clean my own trad pro it also gives me an extra prussik cord and a biner for some emergency cases, guitly of not tying a stopper knot recently have been more aware of its importance. Very important to pay attention and not pull the stopper knot while taking the rap ropes out that can be problematic especially on multiple rappels. Another reason to use double ropes for multipitch though.

Tom Mulholland · · #1 Cheese Producing State! · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 50
JSH wrote: He may well have had a 200-ft (60m) rope, and "editorial" mistakes were made.
It's likely that the ropes were fixed for their 'stunt.' You can clearly rappel 77m on a single strand with a 100m rope.
Ryan Williams · · London (sort of) · Joined May 2009 · Points: 1,245

I'm a pretty big fan of doubles, but they really aren't needed all the time. Managing a single rope w/ long runners is easy enough most times, but it does take longer. When I'm leading hard on multi-pitch climbs, I like to move fast and save every ounce of energy for the next pitch. Doubles make this possible because you can just clip the rope to a cam or a draw, and not worry about having to extend it.

There are also times where doubles do give you more protection options. One time I spefically remember was leading the R pitch on the Third Pillar of Dana. You do a 10- move w/ nothing but micro-nuts protecting you from a big sharp ledge (not really R, but spicy). If you have doubles, you can place a stopper in a crack just left of the crux, and then you can traverse right and place another one in a different crack. Neither crack has enough room to place more than one good piece - it would be a rope drag nightmare w/ a single.

The main drawback w/ doubles is that you will fall farther (unless you have two pieces in side by side). I experienced this on Dum Dee Dum Dum, where I fell out of the wide section and sort of skidded on the low angle terrain below. Not a real impact, but more of one than would have happened w/ a single. I suppose the belayer could have done a better job as well.

If you have doubles that are also rated as twins, you can avoid this by clipping both ropes when you are above a ledge (or any other time you want to minimise fall distance). But then you are increasing the forces that your gear and your body must withstand, so it's a catch 22.

Then there are the times when I've been on new terrain on VERY sharp limestone and was wishing I had a second rope. And times when I had to bail and leave gear behind, or just get down super fast. Lots of other reasons too. Like most things in climbing, doubles have their place. I'd say I use mine on about a half of the multi-pitch climbs that I do and much less than that on single pitch.

bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065

i usually tie the knots on multi raps, the trick IMO is to have a system set up where the first person down holds the ends of the rope for a firemans and then unties the knots ... they should be doing that anyways for diagonal raps

also if the first person down uses a prussik or something similar, then they can usually fix any snafus, knot related or not

rapping off the ends i believe is one of the more common rap failures ... its all too easy when yr rushing or in the dark to screw up the rope management ... especially if you depend on the middle mark or bi-pattern rather than pulling up both ends of the rope

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Injuries and Accidents
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