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Mastercam 0 - Broken Cam Stop
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By Count Chockula
From Littleton, CO
May 21, 2011
Count Chockula

Sent in the broken cam the end of last week. Imagine my surprise when I checked the mail yesterday and received a shiny, new #0 Mastercam from Metolius! I'm very impressed with the quick turnaround.

It appears they changed the design of the lobes in the last couple years. My broken #0 (stamped w/09) had the little "teeth" in the lobes. The new one I received has smooth lobes, which seems to be the typical design for most cams this small.


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By Gunkiemike
May 27, 2011

Dave Holliday wrote:
The same thing just happened to me today. My first piece on the route was the purple mastercam (second smallest size, I think) and as I was being lowered it came rocketing out of its placement. One of the cam stops had sheared off.


And you never put your weight on it? It came out due only to the light force imparted by the rope as it ran - probably at a sharp angle if your belayer was out from the wall - through it as you were being lowered? Yikes.

But then one could argue that anytime the cam stops are loaded, the placement is already worthless/failed.


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By Count Chockula
From Littleton, CO
May 27, 2011
Count Chockula

At least you should have no problem getting it replaced. When I spoke to Metolius they seemed very aware of this issue with the two smaller Mastercams, 00 and 0. Replacement should be quick and easy.

www.metoliusclimbing.com/warranty-returns-repairs.html


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By bearbreeder
Mar 25, 2012

POOFAY ... cam stops blown and inverted

fell 5 feet above it at the lower crux ... gear looked ok when placed, not to say it didnt shift, id fallen on it at the same placement before ...

gonna return it to MEC

blown purple tcu
blown purple tcu


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By Ben Beard
From Superior, AZ
Mar 25, 2012
roo, my only son, the stare that takes down a herd of 'stock

This post got me thinking, and this is no way making any accusations against people who posted on here.

On these small cams, no matter which brand, getting 5-10 feet above that tiny cam could generate some high forces in a fall (correct me if I am wrong). Are the cam manufacturers too generous in giving out free replacements for every small cam that breaks? For a 4-5kN cam, something has to give in a serious fall. Are climbers too cheap to just get a new piece when their tiny cams get tweaked?


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By bearbreeder
Mar 25, 2012

depends how high up you are and how straight the rope runs ... the TCU was around 30-40feet off the deck with a straight rope

either way manufacturers live by their reputations .... if they dont cover blown cams at a minimal/no costs people will simply buy other brands that are known for their customer service .. . or buy from rei/mec that covers it

a poignant lesson is the excellent warranty from OR, EB, REI, lands end, etc ... where you can return a product for ANY reason ...

they still make moola ... and indeed some people buy from them because of it ...


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By Ryan Williams
Administrator
From London (sort of)
Mar 25, 2012
El Chorro

Ben Beard wrote:
This post got me thinking, and this is no way making any accusations against people who posted on here. On these small cams, no matter which brand, getting 5-10 feet above that tiny cam could generate some high forces in a fall (correct me if I am wrong).


The force is no higher than if you got 5 to 10 feet above a #2 Camalot. The problem is, the small cams are rated to 4-5kN and the bigger ones around 12kN.

Ben Beard wrote:
Are the cam manufacturers too generous in giving out free replacements for every small cam that breaks?


No. I did end up contacting Metolius and they offered to sell me a new new one at a discounted price. Their thinking is that the cam is not designed for free climbing, which is what I was doing. Not generous, but not necessarily wrong either.

Ben Beard wrote:
Are climbers too cheap to just get a new piece when their tiny cams get tweaked?


Yes.


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By Alan Ream
From Lafayette CO
Mar 25, 2012
Breakfast of Champion slacker climbers.

Wow - I was surprised to see this post. I just had the exact same issue with my purple # o Metolius Master cam last week. I called Metolius about it and they basically said it was toast and there was nothing they could do "one for the trophy wall" . This is after consulting two mountain shops for advise about it and they both thought I should call. None of my other cams seem to have this problem as of yet. Some sort of design flaw? Or just bad luck? Anyway, I bought a new one to replace it - Hopefully it will be more robust.


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By Ryan Williams
Administrator
From London (sort of)
Mar 25, 2012
El Chorro

Alan Ream wrote:
Wow - I was surprised to see this post. I just had the exact same issue with my purple # o Metolius Master cam last week. I called Metolius about it and they basically said it was toast and there was nothing they could do "one for the trophy wall" . This is after consulting two mountain shops for advise about it and they both thought I should call. None of my other cams seem to have this problem as of yet. Some sort of design flaw? Or just bad luck? Anyway, I bought a new one to replace it - Hopefully it will be more robust.


What on earth makes you think the new one will be "more robust?"


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By Alan Ream
From Lafayette CO
Mar 25, 2012
Breakfast of Champion slacker climbers.

They have redesigned the lobes - they are now different (smooth lobes - no ridges and the cam stops seem thicker. etc) So I am hopeful - Perhaps there was just a bad batch or something. My other ones have not had this issue - even the smaller grey one seems fine. Time will tell.

Purple # 0 Metolius cam with broken cam stop - next to a new one.
Purple # 0 Metolius cam with broken cam stop - next to a new one.


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By bearbreeder
Mar 25, 2012

Alan Ream wrote:
Wow - I was surprised to see this post. I just had the exact same issue with my purple # o Metolius Master cam last week. I called Metolius about it and they basically said it was toast and there was nothing they could do "one for the trophy wall" . This is after consulting two mountain shops for advise about it and they both thought I should call. None of my other cams seem to have this problem as of yet. Some sort of design flaw? Or just bad luck? Anyway, I bought a new one to replace it - Hopefully it will be more robust.



alan ... did metolius do anything for you ... such as sell a unit at a discounted rate or cover it?

thanks


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By Alan Ream
From Lafayette CO
Mar 25, 2012
Breakfast of Champion slacker climbers.

Nope - nothing - That would have been great. I would have even paid something to have new lobes put on - I am guessing I just caught someone having a bad day - perhaps one too many conversations about broken cam stops. Oh well - for the most part I really like Metolius and believe in their stuff. I use quite a lot of it.


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By bearbreeder
Mar 25, 2012

hmmmm ... im crossing those purple metolius of my list ... personally id rather buy from companies that do something for the customer

im sure some people here will complain about the statement above ... but then its my money, not yours ;)

good thing i buy all my cams from mec ... saves having to deal with the manufacturer ... i took back a BD 0.3 whose internal springs blew out ... they gave me credit no questions asked


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By Leeroy
Mar 25, 2012

Ben Beard wrote:
Are climbers too cheap to just get a new piece when their tiny cams get tweaked?


Yes.

Even when they are using it for protecting free climbs. Despite Metolius only recommending it for body weight placements on aid climbs.

Sure, they "can" catch a fall and are probably better than nothing but it should come as a surprise to absolutely no one, that these small cams can get mangled in a fall.

Maybe it's time to think about investing in a few ball nutz fella's? You get 2 more KN and better range for $20 less!


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By Ray Pinpillage
From West Egg
Mar 25, 2012
Cleo's Needle

bearbreeder wrote:
POOFAY ... cam stops blown and inverted fell 5 feet above it at the lower crux ... gear looked ok when placed, not to say it didnt shift, id fallen on it at the same placement before ... gonna return it to MEC


You got lucky before, there is a reason Metolius doesn't rate that cam at 12KN. You were using the gear outside of its intended purpose and now you expect someone else to shoulder the responsibility. The cam didn't just break, YOU broke it.

It makes me wonder when you complain about Arcteryx how much you play in that equation. Or rather, if you're misusing that gear too and expecting them to be responsible.


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By Count Chockula
From Littleton, CO
Mar 25, 2012
Count Chockula

Bummer that some of you didn't get the same stellar customer service from Metolius that I (and others) have received. When I talked to them, they seemed very aware of the cam stop "issue" with their #0 and #00 cams, which led me to believe that it was a design flaw of some sort. Before I even told the guy at Metolius what size the cam was that had the broken cam stop, he asked me, "Is it the #0 or #00 Mastercam that broke?" He never asked me how I thought it broke, either. "Just send it in and we'll replace it," he said.

If you look carefully at the initial photo I posted, you can see that the cam stops are directly in line with the grooves in the lobes...possible weak point perhaps? Maybe this is why they now have smooth lobes on the newer designs.


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By Ray Pinpillage
From West Egg
Mar 25, 2012
Cleo's Needle

Count Chockula wrote:
Bummer that some of you didn't get the same stellar customer service from Metolius that I (and others) have received. When I talked to them, they seemed very aware of the cam stop "issue" with their #0 and #00 cams, which led me to believe that it was a design flaw of some sort. Before I even told the guy at Metolius what size the cam was that had the broken cam stop, he asked me, "Is it the #0 or #00 Mastercam that broke?" He never asked me how I thought it broke, either. "Just send it in and we'll replace it," he said. If you look carefully at the initial photo I posted, you can see that the cam stops are directly in line with the grooves in the lobes...possible weak point perhaps? Maybe this is why they now have smooth lobes on the newer designs.


There is a difference between a defective cam stop and breaking the cam by exceeding it's stated load rating. Lead falls on a 00 or 0 will destroy the cam eventually.


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By Count Chockula
From Littleton, CO
Mar 25, 2012
Count Chockula

I agree...but in my case, the cam was most likely damaged during a burly cleaning, not from a fall.


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By bearbreeder
Mar 26, 2012

Ray Pinpillage wrote:
You got lucky before, there is a reason Metolius doesn't rate that cam at 12KN. You were using the gear outside of its intended purpose and now you expect someone else to shoulder the responsibility. The cam didn't just break, YOU broke it. It makes me wonder when you complain about Arcteryx how much you play in that equation. Or rather, if you're misusing that gear too and expecting them to be responsible.


well mista ray ... perhaps you can tell me how various other people have issues with their dead bird harness ... and why dead bird beefed up the lower tie in points on their new harness ... perhaps they arent meant to be free climbed on ;)

you place what gear you can ... anything is better than nothing ... no where in their manual or on their TCU page does metolius say its for aid only ... sure its rated to 5 kn, but then many other microcams are rated to roughly the same .... but then im sure yr so awesome that you dont bother placing cams anyways =P

ill be bringing it back to MEC ... which is the reason you buy from MEC/REI ...


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By Ray Pinpillage
From West Egg
Mar 26, 2012
Cleo's Needle

bearbreeder wrote:
well mista ray ... perhaps you can tell me how various other people have issues with their dead bird harness ... and why dead bird beefed up the lower tie in points on their new harness ... perhaps they arent meant to be free climbed on ;) you place what gear you can ... anything is better than nothing ... no where in their manual or on their TCU page does metolius say its for aid only ... sure its rated to 5 kn, but then many other microcams are rated to roughly the same .... but then im sure yr so awesome that you dont bother placing cams anyways =P ill be bringing it back to MEC ... which is the reason you buy from MEC/REI ...


You sound confused, I didn't say it was for aid only, I said you applied more force than it is rated for. You clearly broke the cam, it wasn't defective like you insinuated. No one owes you anything, especially not Metolius.


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By bearbreeder
Mar 26, 2012

Ray Pinpillage wrote:
You sound confused, I didn't say it was for aid only, I said you applied more force than it is rated for. You clearly broke the cam, it wasn't defective like you insinuated. No one owes you anything, especially not Metolius.


did i use the word "owes" ... i think you are confused here ;)

some companies just take care of their customers regardless ... and its not like they are going out of business =P

The REI Guarantee
We stand behind everything we sell. If at any time your REI purchase doesn't meet your expectations, you can return it for a replacement or refund. What's more, if you're an REI member, you don’t even need a receipt—we'll have a record of your purchase.


......

MEC's Rock Solid Guarantee


Like many retailers, we guarantee our products; if an item hasn't met your expectations, you can bring it back. Unlike most retailers, we also guarantee the product selection advice offered through our website and staff; if an item you've purchased based on this advice turns out to be unsuitable, you can bring it back. In either case, simply return the item for exchange, refund, repair, or credit.



.....

Here at Outdoor Research, we are committed to developing truly functional solutions for Human Powered Adventure.
OR products are Designed By Adventure™ and from this, we deliver the hallmark of all Outdoor Research products – functional gear that works and lasts. By placing quality and function first, we can offer the finest guarantee in the industry for each and every product – OR’s Infinite Guarantee™.
We believe so strongly in the quality of what we make that if, at anytime, our product fails to meet your needs, we are happy to exchange or return it. Because of this solid belief, our products are guaranteed forever and are designed with this in mind. Your total satisfaction in our product is our goal.
Though we doubt you’ll ever need to, if you ever have to use our Infinite Guarantee, see the Returns and Exchanges section above.


....


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By Greg D
From Here
Mar 26, 2012
Out of the blue.  Photo by Mike W. <br />

Ryan Williams wrote:
Without the cam-stop, the cam is useless.

What kind of math are u doing. The stop plays no role in camming mode. Only in chocking mode.


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By Sir Wanksalot
From County Jail
Mar 26, 2012

bearbreeder wrote:
....

Quit being such a cheap ass! First off. Count was talking about a mastercam, and you broke your janky old TCU. Metolius replaced a defective "master cam" and told you to go take a walk when your perfectly good "TCU" was broken by your lack of placement and understanding of the purpose of that cam. I like to back up little stuff because it's only rate at 5kn. If I break my gear, I buy new gear.

Your behavior is what puts good local shops out of business. REI only can replace your broken shit because they put local competition out of business.


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By bearbreeder
Mar 26, 2012

Randy W. wrote:
Quit being such a cheap ass! First off. Count was talking about a mastercam, and you broke your janky old TCU. Metolius replaced a defective "master cam" and told you to go take a walk when your perfectly good "TCU" was broken by your lack of placement and understanding of the purpose of that cam. I like to back up little stuff because it's only rate at 5kn. If I break my gear, I buy new gear. Your behavior is what puts good local shops out of business. REI only can replace your broken shit because they put local competition out of business.


awww ... cry me a river ... maybe you should go tell REI to change their guarantee ... rather than just keyboard commando about it ;)

REI, MEC, OR, EB knows very well what their return policies are and what it does for their business

i havent contacted metolius at all ... but then you cant even read ... why bother with metolius when the retailer covers it with no shipping costs ...

i support a certain little shop in squamish with my business for shoes and other consumables ... other gear i buy from MEC for good reason ... its a free market, and people vote with their dollars

but then im sure yr climbing "ethics" always include telling other people what to do ... are ya one of those moralizing republicans by chance ;)


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By blakeherrington
Mar 26, 2012

I also climbed on a purple mastercam that had a snapped-off cam stop.

The cam stops on Master Cams are necessary for the cam to work in any mode. The spring curls around the cam stop and without it in place, there is no spring tension.

It was on a friend's rack we were using for the day, the piece was quite new, and he said he couldn't figure out how it had broken since he hadn't weighted the piece yet.

I didn't realize that cam was broken until I went to place it and noticed that half of the lobes didn't expand after I pulled the trigger.

Metolius's response was basically that damage happens to small and finnicky gear, and they had no way to ensure I hadn't abused the gear, which is obviously all true. They weren't going to replace it.


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