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Lucid Dreaming 

YDS: 5.12d French: 7c Ewbanks: 28 UIAA: IX ZA: 28 British: E6 6b

Type:  Sport, 1 pitch
Consensus:  YDS: 5.12+ French: 7c Ewbanks: 28 UIAA: IX ZA: 27 British: E6 6b [details]
FA: Vaino Kodas , Bob D'Antonio and Mary Zuvela
New Route: Yes
Page Views: 13,787
Submitted By: Ron Olsen on Nov 11, 2001

You & This Route  |  Other Opinions (76)
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Ridge dreaming of air well before the crux on LC; ...

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  • Description 

    Just right of Rama on the Plotinus Wall is a beautiful, overhanging arete. This is Lucid Dreaming. Stick-clip the first bolt then power up a series of tricky, strenuous moves to a stopper move near the the fourth bolt. Crank up over the bulge and follow the steep face up to a two-bolt anchor. Classic and hard arete climbing on beautiful granite.


    Eight bolts to a two-bolt anchor.

    Photos of Lucid Dreaming Slideshow Add Photo
    Nice climb.
    Nice climb.
    Working the crux moves on Lucid.
    Working the crux moves on Lucid.
    About to whip off the last hard move.  Photo court...
    About to whip off the last hard move. Photo court...
    I don't think this is the best way for most people...
    I don't think this is the best way for most people...
    Dan (Area Dan) moving through the crux on a beauti...
    Dan (Area Dan) moving through the crux on a beauti...
    Plotinus Wall, middle.
    BETA PHOTO: Plotinus Wall, middle.
    Eyeing the crux move on Lucid Dreaming. Photo by: ...
    Eyeing the crux move on Lucid Dreaming. Photo by: ...
    It is obvious, but critical, where your right hand...
    It is obvious, but critical, where your right hand...
    Plotinus Wall, right side
    BETA PHOTO: Plotinus Wall, right side
    Brett Merlin about to enter the crux
    Brett Merlin about to enter the crux
    Tony Bubb in the crux section on 'Lucid Dreaming (...
    Tony Bubb in the crux section on 'Lucid Dreaming (...
    Tony Bubb on the steep arete after the crux sectio...
    Tony Bubb on the steep arete after the crux sectio...
    Local climber and BRC trainer Curt MacNeill doing ...
    Local climber and BRC trainer Curt MacNeill doing ...

    Comments on Lucid Dreaming Add Comment
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    Comments displayed oldest to newestSkip Ahead to the Most Recent Dated Oct 19, 2014
    By Anonymous Coward
    Dec 17, 2002

    Awesome route! Probably the best 12c in Boulder Canyon. Steep climbing leads to a reachy V4 crux. I would recommend a stiff boot! Good job Bob.
    By Peter Beal
    From: Boulder Colorado
    Apr 11, 2003

    Pretty solid for 12c but definitely not 13a. However I have a feeling a few holds are going to break on this, especially the potato chip flake below the third bolt, in which case the rating will definitely jump.
    By Fred Knapp
    Jul 7, 2003

    I'm a weak Boulder climber and i have to say it felt like 12b/c to me. A very high quality route, nonetheless.
    By Bill Wright
    Jul 11, 2003

    Man, I wish I were as weak as you guys...
    By Tony B
    From: Around Boulder, CO
    Jul 23, 2003
    rating: 5.12 7b+ 27 VIII+ 26 E6 6b

    Nice climb, nice moves: too bad I didn't link some of them...Speaking of the holds maybe breaking off, The hold on the arete from which to clip the first bolt is cracked back behind it and scares me a little. Check it out and consider stick-clipping bolt #1.
    By jonah
    Sep 30, 2003

    I'm bummed that I'm moving from Boulder, because I won't have routes like this in my backyard anymore. Not too bummed to get away from all the mindless downgrading ego games, though. Yuck. This route is hands down one of the most aesthetic in the canyon, with some of the most fun climbing anywhere. And it is bolted just right for some good clean air when you blow the crux before clipping the 4th bolt. Great job, Bob!
    By Joe Collins
    Dec 8, 2003
    rating: 5.12d 7c 28 IX 28 E6 6b

    Awesome route. Hard to believe this line wasn't put up until recently. I found the hardest single move to be the long move from the jug at the 2nd bolt... this was a low percentage move for me. If you don't have a stick clip, you can clip the first bolt of Rama to remove the possibility of tumbling down to the creek.

    Not sure what to make of the downgrading going on here. I think people just like to give Bob a hard time. I've been able to finish 12c's at Boulder Canyon and Shelf really quickly of late, but this one will need a bit more work for me to link.
    By Tony B
    From: Around Boulder, CO
    Dec 8, 2003
    rating: 5.12 7b+ 27 VIII+ 26 E6 6b

    I guess that just goes to show this route has a little something for everyone. I on-sighted to the 4th bolt and then hit a small hold up and left that spit me off 2 or 3 times.
    By Joe Collins
    Mar 17, 2004
    rating: 5.12d 7c 28 IX 28 E6 6b

    Just to be a grade geek here... comparing to other BC routes, I found this one a good bit harder to send than Animal Instinct, Amazing Face, and Hands of Destiny. I don't have much experience with 13a, but I would expect that to be a much longer-term project.
    By Jim Redo
    Jun 1, 2005
    rating: 5.12c 7b+ 27 IX- 27 E6 6b

    A good 12c
    By Anonymous Coward
    Jun 9, 2005

    This route is very similar to No Doze at the Sport Park (style and difficulty) - 12c by Boulder Canyon standards, could be a 12b in other areas I have visited. Very bouldery, so I can see where some folks could get shut down, but V6 if you look at it that way.
    By Anonymous Coward
    Jun 10, 2005

    Doesn't V6 relate to 12d/13a?
    By Jim Collins
    Jun 23, 2005

    Rating--depends on height. Easier for taller people.Upper crux feels about like Hagan's Wall difficulty (V5), lower section feels about like Consideration difficulty (V4) -- so it is essentially a V4 with a good shake followed up by a V5. Which adds up to something in the range of 12d.
    By Jim Redo
    Jul 8, 2005
    rating: 5.12c 7b+ 27 IX- 27 E6 6b

    I felt the route was 12c, and I'm short. The [Flying Beast] at Easter [Rock] is much harder and that gets the slash grade of easy 13a. Although the routes are a bit different in angle [The Flying Beast] is two boulder problems separated by a not so good of a rest as Lucid.
    By Anonymous Coward
    Jul 12, 2005

    To further the case for downrating you can dyno past the first crux from a jug to the shaky flake (height-dependent but easy V0+ move for most people). To my belayer's dismay, this seemed like the most efficient idea, and after seeing him thrutch on the layback to get to the same hold, I figured he was doing it wrong anyway - he should spend more time bouldering and learning dynamic movement because this is nothing short of a giveaway to anyone who boulders.
    By Anonymous Coward
    Oct 18, 2005

    As reference, ac's bouldering scale is off by about a number grade (V8=13a), but you will find many more climbers capable of climbing a V8 boulder problem than a 13a. I believe George's 12b grade may be a little stiff (that is most likley the result of being a solid 13 climber).
    By Chris Briley
    Aug 8, 2006

    13a for sure and a great one at that.
    By climberboy2
    Nov 20, 2006

    I am new to this area of grade (hard 12) and recently did another Dream Canyon route...The Caterer 12c. I was wondering how you would rate The Caterer (because nobody posts any comments on it) and how it compares to a route like Lucid Dreaming.

    Any comments?
    By Curt MacNeill
    From: Boulder, CO
    Mar 23, 2011

    This route is incredible!! It took me a few worked sessions to get all the moves down and send it. This is powerful arete climbing at its best. Stick clip the first bolt or climb cautiously up to the first bolt. Big moves to fairly positive holds most of the way. There are 5 fixed draws on this route all the time to make clipping easier and so you can work the route. There is a stopper move up near the fourth bolt that is definitely a deal breaker on red point. Find the incut jug just after the crux and then finish on what I thought was 5.10 climbing to the top of the slab. Overall, a damn good route if you're climbing at the grade. Bring your camera as this climb is one of the most picturesque climbs and one of the best sport routes in Boulder Canyon. Enjoy. BTW, make sure you get on The Scientist and Boulder Quartz System which are its neighbors. All three are quality routes!!!!!
    By kiff
    Nov 23, 2011
    rating: 5.12c 7b+ 27 IX- 27 E6 6b

    I think that there is no way this is 13a, especially when compared to routes like Big Kahuna in Rumney, which is considered tough 12d/13a, there is no move on Lucid harder than the crux moves on BK. This should "settle" at 12c/d.
    By Tyler Fox
    Nov 8, 2012

    Finished this today and cleaned my draws, blue BDs. Moved the other 4 draws to the 1st 4 bolts. Just a heads up.
    By Patrick Vernon
    From: Albuquerque, NM
    Nov 21, 2013
    rating: 5.12c/d 7c 28 IX 28 E6 6b

    I wonder what Lucid Dreaming would be rated in Rifle?
    By KCP
    From: Eldorado Springs, CO
    May 18, 2014
    rating: 5.12c 7b+ 27 IX- 27 E6 6b

    I removed the draws from Lucid Dreaming today. The...
    I removed the draws from Lucid Dreaming today. They're no longer safe. The one with the square-cut gouge in it was on the third bolt that people whip onto when they blow the lip. Several of the slings are showing visible sun and weather damage. Anyway, whoever owns them is welcome to call or message me, and I'm happy to get them back to you if you're local.
    By Chris Shockabra
    From: colorado
    Aug 15, 2014

    Kind of a bummer you didn't replace any of the draws but stripped the route instead. Also all but the draw on the far left appear fine.
    By J. Albers
    From: Colorado
    Aug 15, 2014

    Why again is it Ken's responsibility to replace the fixed draws? Want a solution to your perceived problem? Bring your own gear, and clean it on the way back down. Personally I think it was awfully generous of Ken to take the time to take pics of the gear with an offer to return it.
    By KCP
    From: Eldorado Springs, CO
    Aug 17, 2014
    rating: 5.12c 7b+ 27 IX- 27 E6 6b

    I'm with J on this, Chris. The draws were sun-damaged, and the biners were worn enough to potentially damage rope running over them. The draw on the fourth bolt was curled up stiff into a 90 degree position from the sun-damage. If you can't see the danger potential from the pic, then I'm especially glad that I removed them before someone gets hurt.

    As for replacing them, it's not my responsibility, nor am I in the financial position to. LD is not a gym route, and no one asked the draw owner to equip the route and leave his or her draws there indefinitely. It was obviously done out of convenience, with little regard long-term wear.

    I took them down and posted that here so that the owner would know where to find them and the community would know not to hike up there expecting the route to be equipped. I even offered to deliver them within Boulder city limits. I felt (feel) that it was the responsible thing to do. Hopefully you can see it that way.

    By slim
    Aug 18, 2014

    Completely agree w/ JA and KCP.
    By Andy Hansen
    From: Longmont, Colorado
    Oct 5, 2014
    rating: 5.12d 7c 28 IX 28 E6 6b

    There are currently no fixed draws on this route, and I did not find hanging the draws to be such a chore that this route should be equipped with permanent draws. Easy to hang the draws from good stances and good holds. I can see this pushing 13a for short folks and somewhere around hard 12 for tall folks. Either way, good movement, great holds, and although the climbing eases considerably after the crux, the climbing above the crux is still cerebral.
    By Blake Storey
    From: Boulder, CO
    Oct 19, 2014

    I hung a set of draws today on Lucid. They have a grey dogbone and black Omega biners. Also there are two blue BD QDs for the anchors. I fell and injured my foot while attempting the route and couldn't rescue the draws. I will be back in a few weeks to retrieve them when I'm better. If anyone cleans them before hand, please contact me. Thanks.