i climbed orange clonus sunday (nov 25th) fun adventure! alas!! i lost my number 4 BD Camalot! big bummer~it's up on the last pitch...if anyone happens to retrieve my old faithful #4., I would definitely treat to beer of choice ..contact bethan 907-306-8787 thanks in advance :)

I definitely saw it up there on 12/6, but it wouldn't budge. It is still there... waiting for you. Sorry! Believe me, I wanted to get it out.

Is this the new standard? "I stuck a cam....my 2nd could not get it out...it was not worth it to me to rap down and re-climb the pitch to get it out...could you please retrieve it for me with your skills....haul it out and get it back to me? I will buy you a beer."

The last pitch of OC is easy to rap back down and re-climb. When we retrieve ropes and gear you folks leave behind, we are actually cleaning up litter, first and foremost. If the gear and/or rope has any use to the party hauling it out, good for them...the class thing to do is to simply thank them for cleaning up after you.

Dow...thanks so much for cleaning up the crag for us, and if in your world there is such a thing a Karma, you'd best hope that there are other things you do in your life that tip the balance back in your favor. "Small unselfish acts of kindness may bare fruit."

Karma??? You need to experience a bit more in life. Climbing is the most self centered activity on earth. If you want karma raining down on you, work a project in East or West Africa. Get real.

A stuck cam you could not get out and/or did not put in the effort to get out is not a "lost" cam...."lost" would be more representative of leaving some pieces on the ground and not realizing it until you returned home. That request for return would make sense.

Begging for a stuck cam to be returned is no doubt the new standard amongst some of you, that I concede.

Well put, D money. Sounds to me like someone needs to.....HARDEN THE FUCK UP!

The world keeps getting smaller. Remember when Red Rock used to be a wilderness?

Sounds like a couple of folks probably tried pretty hard to get that cam unstuck. Another two of you are oh so sure of yourselves and have certainly never regretted having to leave something behind on a climb, I'm sure. Most of your posts are thoughtful and well-worded. In this case, please lighten up gentlemen.

Sure, but shit happens. You aren't required to return gear to people if it is left on a climb. They are not entitled to get their gear back either. And it isn't karma. But if you know who the person is and they request it back, is returning it not the right thing to do?

People leave gear all the time around Red Rock. My girlfriend got one of my cams so horribly overcammed on the first pitch of OC last year. I was unable to get it out despite two nut tools and 20 minutes of work. It eventually did come out via someone else (over a month later) after it had been beat to shit and pried out of the crack with some sort of a short crowbar.

Shit happens. Long, arduous rappels and meandering, ledgy terrain leads to stuck ropes. Cams walk (when not properly slung) and people make mistakes when placing gear in sketchy situations.

If you leave a piece of gear on a route, you have said good bye to it. But if someone feels like they would like to return it to you, more power to them, it's just the right thing to do.

^^^^Why bring rational thought into a climbing forum, clint? Have fun on the new years trip, btw.

Just ballbusting. I got a stuck #3 back for the price of a thai curry once, also my strangely forgotten #1 for a second trip up Dark Shadows to the top in a week.

Nothing wrong with a little reward for gear returned. It's Crissmass, everyone should lighten up, or at least Harden the Fuck Up, as previously mentioned.

Remember when losing gear just meant losing gear, end of story?

yeah sometimes I open my big mouth and before I know it i've gone ahead and made a point. dammit! J-tree tomorrow, can't wait! Nothin like new years in the tree!

So... I'm just going to go ahead and chime in and say I climbed OC in mid December and on the last pitch I pulled out the old style #4 by hand while leading... I don't know what the other poster is talking about "working on it," unless it's like a lid on a jar of pickles that he loosened for me and I simply pulled out. This piece was clearly forgotten and not "stuck." Things happen.

Just paid top dollar for a couple of those old 4s, nice find! Now the ethical dilemma gets into fifth gear...

I've never gotten a piece of gear that I haven't begrudgingly returned to the owner. "Hey did you see a #4 up there?" "Hey were you able to get those nuts out on the first second and third pitches". Holy crap it hurts to give that stuff away. You work for 15 minutes on a cam and then the owner collects it from you at the base. I guess I tend to believe more in the harden the fuck up mentality, but always give in to the 2012 Karma free love guilt trip.

Probably should have posted this a while ago to calm things down - the owner of the cam was contacted and it is in the process of being returned.

Welcome back to the most edited page in the Nevada forums.

Hope you didn't miss all the fun, the admin elves were taking away the good stuff overnight like a bunch of Dickish tooth fairies.

Speaking of fairies, I believe someone called you a dick a while ago-ignore the voice behind the screen, it's squeaky and needs lots of cookies and hugs.

Class move A.Y., I wouldn't blame you for keeping it regardless.