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lost gear on orange clonus
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By bethan
From Cambridge UK...soon Riva Italy
Nov 28, 2012
one of my favorite hidden gems
i climbed orange clonus sunday (nov 25th) fun adventure! alas!! i lost my number 4 BD Camalot! big bummer~it's up on the last pitch...if anyone happens to retrieve my old faithful #4., I would definitely treat to beer of choice ..contact bethan 907-306-8787 thanks in advance :)

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By Nelson Day
From Joshua Tree, CA
Dec 20, 2012
me (about to sneeze)
I definitely saw it up there on 12/6, but it wouldn't budge. It is still there... waiting for you. Sorry! Believe me, I wanted to get it out.

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By Dow Williams
From Saint George, UT
Dec 25, 2012
Dow Williams, 2011
Is this the new standard? "I stuck a cam....my 2nd could not get it out...it was not worth it to me to rap down and re-climb the pitch to get it out...could you please retrieve it for me with your skills....haul it out and get it back to me? I will buy you a beer."

The last pitch of OC is easy to rap back down and re-climb. When we retrieve ropes and gear you folks leave behind, we are actually cleaning up litter, first and foremost. If the gear and/or rope has any use to the party hauling it out, good for them...the class thing to do is to simply thank them for cleaning up after you.

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By Benjamin Chapman
From Small Town, USA
Dec 25, 2012
old 1/4" bolt.
Dow...thanks so much for cleaning up the crag for us, and if in your world there is such a thing a Karma, you'd best hope that there are other things you do in your life that tip the balance back in your favor. "Small unselfish acts of kindness may bare fruit."

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By Dow Williams
From Saint George, UT
Dec 25, 2012
Dow Williams, 2011
Karma??? You need to experience a bit more in life. Climbing is the most self centered activity on earth. If you want karma raining down on you, work a project in East or West Africa. Get real.

A stuck cam you could not get out and/or did not put in the effort to get out is not a "lost" cam...."lost" would be more representative of leaving some pieces on the ground and not realizing it until you returned home. That request for return would make sense.

Begging for a stuck cam to be returned is no doubt the new standard amongst some of you, that I concede.

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By Cultivating Mass
Dec 27, 2012
Leading on the only "fair means" rack.
Well put, D money. Sounds to me like someone needs to.....HARDEN THE FUCK UP!

The world keeps getting smaller. Remember when Red Rock used to be a wilderness?

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By Vaughn Fetzer
From Fairbanks, AK
Dec 27, 2012
Sounds like a couple of folks probably tried pretty hard to get that cam unstuck. Another two of you are oh so sure of yourselves and have certainly never regretted having to leave something behind on a climb, I'm sure. Most of your posts are thoughtful and well-worded. In this case, please lighten up gentlemen.

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By clint helander
From anchorage, alaska
Dec 27, 2012
Sleeping on top of Washington column after climbin...
Sure, but shit happens. You aren't required to return gear to people if it is left on a climb. They are not entitled to get their gear back either. And it isn't karma. But if you know who the person is and they request it back, is returning it not the right thing to do?

People leave gear all the time around Red Rock. My girlfriend got one of my cams so horribly overcammed on the first pitch of OC last year. I was unable to get it out despite two nut tools and 20 minutes of work. It eventually did come out via someone else (over a month later) after it had been beat to shit and pried out of the crack with some sort of a short crowbar.

Shit happens. Long, arduous rappels and meandering, ledgy terrain leads to stuck ropes. Cams walk (when not properly slung) and people make mistakes when placing gear in sketchy situations.

If you leave a piece of gear on a route, you have said good bye to it. But if someone feels like they would like to return it to you, more power to them, it's just the right thing to do.

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By Cultivating Mass
Dec 27, 2012
Leading on the only "fair means" rack.
^^^^Why bring rational thought into a climbing forum, clint? Have fun on the new years trip, btw.

Just ballbusting. I got a stuck #3 back for the price of a thai curry once, also my strangely forgotten #1 for a second trip up Dark Shadows to the top in a week.

Nothing wrong with a little reward for gear returned. It's Crissmass, everyone should lighten up, or at least Harden the Fuck Up, as previously mentioned.

Remember when losing gear just meant losing gear, end of story?

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By clint helander
From anchorage, alaska
Dec 28, 2012
Sleeping on top of Washington column after climbin...
yeah sometimes I open my big mouth and before I know it i've gone ahead and made a point. dammit! J-tree tomorrow, can't wait! Nothin like new years in the tree!

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By Andrew Yasso
Dec 29, 2012
Top of Rainbow Buttress
So... I'm just going to go ahead and chime in and say I climbed OC in mid December and on the last pitch I pulled out the old style #4 by hand while leading... I don't know what the other poster is talking about "working on it," unless it's like a lid on a jar of pickles that he loosened for me and I simply pulled out. This piece was clearly forgotten and not "stuck." Things happen.

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By Cultivating Mass
Dec 29, 2012
Leading on the only "fair means" rack.
Just paid top dollar for a couple of those old 4s, nice find! Now the ethical dilemma gets into fifth gear...

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By Marc H
From Lafayette, CO
Dec 29, 2012
The Cathedral Spires in RMNP, left to right: Stile...
Smarty Ports/Shants wrote:
Just paid top dollar for a couple of those old 4s, nice find! Now the ethical dilemma gets into fifth gear...


Several years ago, immediately after BD released their third generation of Camalots, we climbed a route in RR. I think it was Olive Oil. We encountered a bail anchor a pitch or two up that consisted of an second gennie #4 Camalot and a beat up nut. Then a pitch or two later, we caught up to another party nearing the top. I built a belay next to them and bullshitted for a few min with the belayer. Then I suddenly I remembered I had just cleaned an anchor and the person I was talking to must have climbed right past the bail anchor. I asked him why they didn't grab any of the anchor--he passed up at least 3 biners, a sling and a #4 Camalot! He said, "Oh, that stuff is super old."

Hahahaha. I still place that thing every time I go to Vedauwoo; it's likely I've whipped on it. Shit, I still have a few first generation Camalots that I've placed a handful of times in IC. Definitely haven't fallen on those though! I guess it's all about perspective. Still can't believe my luck scoring that "old" #4.

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By John Wilder
From Las Vegas, NV
Dec 29, 2012
Dow Williams wrote:
Begging for a stuck cam to be returned is no doubt the new standard amongst some of you, that I concede.


I think there is a slight difference between begging and simply asking for the lost gear to be returned, dont you think?

Sounds to me like the OP just threw it out there, and if it had been me who retrieved the cam, i'd have happily returned it. Ive returned a fair bit of gear to its owners over the years, including mailing a cam and a camera off Tunnelvision back to England to a pair of honeymooners who had lost them en route. I've also kept a fair bit of lost gear since i never found its original owner.

While i'll happily keep gear if i dont know who lost it, if its original owner is known, i will definitely return it if possible. Maybe i'm just weird, but doing anything else seems like a real dick move, imho.

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By Chris Burton
Dec 30, 2012
John Wilder wrote:
I think there is a slight difference between begging and simply asking for the lost gear to be returned, dont you think? Sounds to me like the OP just threw it out there, and if it had been me who retrieved the cam, i'd have happily returned it. Ive returned a fair bit of gear to its owners over the years, including mailing a cam and a camera off Tunnelvision back to England to a pair of honeymooners who had lost them en route. I've also kept a fair bit of lost gear since i never found its original owner. While i'll happily keep gear if i dont know who lost it, if its original owner is known, i will definitely return it if possible. Maybe i'm just weird, but doing anything else seems like a real dick move, imho.


Well said, John.

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By Dankasaurus
From Lyons, CO
Dec 30, 2012
Dow Williams wrote:
Karma??? You need to experience a bit more in life. Climbing is the most self centered activity on earth. If you want karma raining down on you, work a project in East or West Africa. Get real.


+1

Karma this, karma that. The way that word is deployed around here by all of you enlightened brats, it has no meaning. At all. It's like saying "thanks" to the guy at the liquor store register.

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By Andy Hansen
From Longmont, Colorado
Dec 30, 2012
Intruder, 5.11+. Zion National Park. Photo: Matt K...
Dankasaurus wrote:
+1 Karma this, karma that. The way that word is deployed around here by all of you enlightened brats, it has no meaning. At all. It's like saying "thanks" to the guy at the liquor store register.


+1

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By Goat
From Boulder
Dec 30, 2012
Unknown climb in The Needles
I've never gotten a piece of gear that I haven't begrudgingly returned to the owner. "Hey did you see a #4 up there?" "Hey were you able to get those nuts out on the first second and third pitches". Holy crap it hurts to give that stuff away. You work for 15 minutes on a cam and then the owner collects it from you at the base. I guess I tend to believe more in the harden the fuck up mentality, but always give in to the 2012 Karma free love guilt trip.

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By Glenn Schuler
From Monument, Co.
Dec 31, 2012
A grey fox skull wedged in a crack 100' up on a FA...
John Wilder wrote:
While i'll happily keep gear if i dont know who lost it, if its original owner is known, i will definitely return it if possible. Maybe i'm just weird, but doing anything else seems like a real dick move, imho.


I think most climbers agree with this - if you know who's gear it is give it back. Nothing to do with karma, it's the decent thing to do.

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By Andrew Yasso
Jan 1, 2013
Top of Rainbow Buttress
Probably should have posted this a while ago to calm things down - the owner of the cam was contacted and it is in the process of being returned.

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By Cultivating Mass
Jan 2, 2013
Leading on the only "fair means" rack.
Welcome back to the most edited page in the Nevada forums.

Hope you didn't miss all the fun, the admin elves were taking away the good stuff overnight like a bunch of Dickish tooth fairies.

Speaking of fairies, I believe someone called you a dick a while ago-ignore the voice behind the screen, it's squeaky and needs lots of cookies and hugs.

Class move A.Y., I wouldn't blame you for keeping it regardless.

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By bethan
From Cambridge UK...soon Riva Italy
Apr 2, 2013
one of my favorite hidden gems
Nelson Day wrote:
I definitely saw it up there on 12/6, but it wouldn't budge. It is still there... waiting for you. Sorry! Believe me, I wanted to get it out.



hi nelson + clint + all those who posted without judgement :-) thx for this post! i heard about these responses from the kind fella, andrew who returned my cam. i've been working 80 plus hrs a week on a transmission line + honestly haven't had the time to check it out. but i'm not much of a debater. i've been climbing 20 years and just love it. plain + simple. prefer to not judge. lost friends to this beautiful sport(rock, ice, alpine etc) and wouldn't waste too much energy on opinions on how others choose to love it..enjoy! keep it real + keep it light.

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By bethan
From Cambridge UK...soon Riva Italy
Apr 3, 2013
one of my favorite hidden gems
Andrew Yasso wrote:
Probably should have posted this a while ago to calm things down - the owner of the cam was contacted and it is in the process of being returned.



a belated thank you very much!!! your karmic bank is overflowing. black velvet season is here! hit me up if you're around in may or one sunday prior :-)

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