Ryan, I read the BMC climbing Outside booklet you referenced cover to cover. Check out the threading the lower off on sport climbs. Seems overly complicated and messy, no? Page 18, is just odd- anchored in with only one clove hitch. Not sure that is a good idea due to potential user error. Am I wrong that this is not sound? I belay off my harness sometimes and see your (and others) point that it is necessary part of trad climbing, but I'm not sure the BMC has the best info out there. I learned to belay off my harness just as they show on page 21. Maybe I didn't learn the other things the right way, but if I came upon some of the BMC anchor examples I would be curious as to why my partner neglected obvious gear placements to not set a bomb proof anchor using a least three pieces. Pg 25 is interesting too, as it lists on the Trad Leading Checklist: DON'T FALL! That's no fun. Those crazy Brits. Seems like a gov't pamphlet on how to climb and super old school. I think John Long's book on anchors is a better educational tool, personally.

Forgive me if I missed it, but keep in mind redirecting through the anchor doubles the forces on the anchor itself.

People tend to forget that the autoblock devices are a recent invention. What do you think people did before that? We were not dying like lemmings.

Three piece anchors set some people's minds at ease... but two pieces and your ass is usually more sound. You have to ask yourself, if you need three pieces to feel confident in your anchor, then how do you feel about falling on the pieces that you place on lead?

Thank you for saying this. Very well put! He may have made a mistake, but he pulled off a nearly superhuman feat to save me. I'm proud to still call him my friend and would climb with him any time.

I would guess he's the safest belayer out there now!

The consequences and steps in preventing holding open a self camming belay device aren't obscure. Calling this 100% some kind of equipment failure is a reach.

Ryan, I knowyou already know this, but I don't think three anchors is generally recommended because you are worried about the two being solid enough. It is more a good rule to guard against human error (and maybe equipment/rock failure), which happens even to the climbing gods. Let's say you are making an anchor and each individual piece is expected to be bomber (which it should normally be). Let's also say you are kind of a spacey guy and FU the placement 1% of the time. With two pieces you'll have the following chance of having a good anchor: 0.01^2=0.0001 (sketch anchor every 10000 pitches) With three pieces you'll have: 0.01^3=.000001 (sketch anchor every 1 million pitches) Now, regardless of the numbers chosen, three is exponentially more FU resistant than 2. Do you need it? Maybe not every time, but if you carry the numbers through to ultimate failure over a lifetime of climbing, you just might decide that the extra 10 sec to put in the third piece is worth the safety margin. After all, there is a reason why it has been a standard recommendation for so long. And 1/1mil sounds like a small number, but three people won the lotto last week at a 1/176 mil chance too.

I generally agree with your point - his photo is indeed contrived - but it is interesting to note how straight it *can* allow the rope to run through it - when not being used in a laboratory... In contrast, a GriGri doesn't allow such a straight path for the rope. The cam on a GriGri also has a much more aggressive V slot, so it will provide more friction to engage the cam. Lots of very serious injuries out there from GriGris as well, though...mostly from users unintentionally holding the cam open...kind of like with this accident...

Megagaper - the point I was trying to make, which I apparently failed miserably to make, was that contrary to AMFDM's claim, the Cinch with the brake strand correctly oriented, even when obstructed, should not create a straight rope path. And that even when obstructed, the belayer should be able to orient the brake strand such that the device should provide sufficient friction to arrest a TR fall. I've seen a TR fall arrested with a figure 8 when the brake strand was held vertical (essentially a 180 bend around a biner in that position), belayer got burned hands, but he held the fall. Do I think it's adequate to belay with only a single 180* bend, hell no. But we aren't talking about using an ATC, munter, etc., the issue is whether the Cinch in an obstructed position, with the brake strand oriented in the proper position will provide enough friction to hold a second in such an emergency. Hopefully, that clarifies the point I was trying to make. Edit - talking about belaying the second from the anchor as shown in ABMFB's pic.