Mountain Project Logo

Lost City

Original Post
Denis O'Connor · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 2,095
This post was originally a comment in ??

Creating this area on MP is a bad idea. I'm all for beta and pics in general, but this one small area has traditionally, and by local consensus, been omitted from guidebooks. Creating this area on MP, even without route postings, goes against that concept.

And Running Man is nowhere near Lost City.
john strand · · southern colo · Joined May 2008 · Points: 1,640

Ya right- lost city has been around for a long time . The routes ther have been publicied/famous for years. John S took 160 tries for Persistent, scotty soloed Survival, Moffat did........

Kinda hard to keep a gunks area " secret"

M Mobley · · Bar Harbor, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 911

its not all that, not a ton of safe leads, mostly TRed

Monomaniac · · Morrison, CO · Joined Oct 2006 · Points: 17,295
mobley wrote:mostly TRed
Just like the rest of the Gunks...
Chris Duca · · Dixfield, ME · Joined Dec 2006 · Points: 2,330

Not a good idea to post this on MP. I frequent Lost City regularly during the climbing season, and I, along with everyone else who climbs out there, enjoy the relative sactuary it offers from the hordes of climbers queued up in the Nears and Trapps. TR or leadable, the routes at Lost City have a special aura because of their omission from any/all guidebooks, and I think that would be diminished if info were to be publicized. The attention Lost City receives from locals and people who know about it, and WANT to lead hard routes is enough. What the Gunks does NOT need is another TRing area. Save that for Peterskill.

M Mobley · · Bar Harbor, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 911

I guess I've never understood the mentality of keeping a place "secret". I can understand if its new and in the process of being developed but Lost City is not either. Millcreek in Utah has its reasons for no guidebook, mainly parking and access issues. Farley is in the same boat. Lost City has its own parking lot and easy access so why not let the masses have at it and write route descriptions.

from RC.com (post#5)- "In other words - LC is kept secret by the locals for the locals out of self interest, and unpublished due to same. That's the relevant 'history' of which you speak. Climbers sure are nice to each other, eh? "

MojoMonkey · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2009 · Points: 66
mobley wrote:I guess I've never understood the mentality of keeping a place "secret". I can understand if its new and in the process of being developed but Lost City is not either. Millcreek in Utah has its reasons for no guidebook, mainly parking and access issues. Farley is in the same boat. Lost City has its own parking lot and easy access so why not let the masses have at it and write route descriptions. from RC.com (post#5)- "In other words - LC is kept secret by the locals for the locals out of self interest, and unpublished due to same. That's the relevant 'history' of which you speak. Climbers sure are nice to each other, eh? "
There is a difference between secret and undocumented. I'm by no means a local and found it easily. It is on the hiking maps and was fun to scope out on a rainy day.

And you seem to have not made it through that thread you linked, in particular check out this post from Rich Goldstone. Aside from the Preserve's request that a guide not be published, there are still good reasons not every area has to be documented.
john strand · · southern colo · Joined May 2008 · Points: 1,640

I am WAY into the historical aspect of things, maybe more than most. However LC has a fairly established history, shall we keep secret routes done 30 years ago ? WHY Gravity's is AWESOME maybe the best 12b in the Gunks ? It just seems silly to me- an area that got press doesn't get it now ?

Persistant was done in 76 ? A tremendous route, I saw pictures of this route and WAY aspired to do it.

Rui Ferreira · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jul 2003 · Points: 903

Many people use MP as resource for planning climbing trips and therefore avoiding having to buy guide books to every climbing trip destination or having to seek the ever illusive informed locals. It also appears that the majority of the MP users tend to live west of the Mississippi. Very few climbers in my Gunks climbing circle have even heard of MP, the ones that have are typically new to town. (I have been climbing at the Gunks since 1988 so I know more than just a few people).

So it is unlikely that limited route postings for LC will attract hordes of climbers lining up on Survival, Gravity's Rainbow, etc. Maybe Stannard's Roof and Cars that Eat People will see a few more leads, but I do not have a problem with that given the high quality of these routes. It will still be less crowded that Mac Wall on a Fall or Reunion weekend; limited parking will continue to keep the crowds thin, as it seems that no one likes to walk over from the Trapps these days.

I have most of the route info on LC and will dust up my notes and start posting. I lack FFA dates and parties for most routes, but don't blame me for the lack of this information. Blame the closed knit group of locals that hardly climb anymore or have their other secret crags (bolted and not) to play in these days.

MojoMonkey · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2009 · Points: 66

I've read a few times on different sites that the Mohonk Preserve, which owns Lost City, has requested that no guidebook be published for Lost City. Seems like, before posting route info on this site, that should be looked into. I don't know if calling the preserve and asking will be a definitive answer or is dependent on who answers the phone. I didn't see anything on the preserve web site.

Rui Ferreira · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jul 2003 · Points: 903

time and time again people have alluded to the fact that the Preserve does not condone publicizing climbing at the Gunks, but that has not stopped countless guidebooks, magazine articles, slideshows, climber festivals, etc.

I have also been on the Preserve website and I have not found any policy statement on LC.

It took eight years from the time I started climbing at the Gunks before I connected with "someone in the the know" about LC. Yes, I knew that it existed all along and was a destination for exploration on rainy days, but that did not help much with route info, grades, etc.

It appears to me that the primary reason people do not want any of LC documented is to keep it exclusive and be able to find parking on the weekend.

Mind you, I am not advocating documenting info on Giant's Workshop, Bonticou, or giving directions to private property (AI, etc.).

Michael _ · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 1,195

I agree with Rui...thanks for offering to upload some info.

stredna · · PA · Joined Aug 2008 · Points: 135

if you don't like it, leave.

Jason Lantz · · Centennial, CO · Joined Sep 2008 · Points: 170

why not post up your name JSH? I think we all know why you're hiding behind a pseudonym?

J. Nickel · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2006 · Points: 100

I like it that there isn't a guidebook for Lost City. The cliff is easy to find and well known, so I don't think that it being some sort of a "secret" is why people don't climb there much. Rather, I think that it is unpopular because people like their climbing experience more sanitized and predictable than what LC offers. After 15+ years of Gunks climbing, I climbed there for the first time this past November. We weren't certain about the routes or grades but instead just picked what looked good and protectable and gave it a go. There was a sense of adventure present that I think is largely absent from modern rock climbing. It was one of my better climbing days, despite struggling on a couple of routes that I might not have gotten on if I had known how hard they were. Just my 2 cents.

MojoMonkey · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2009 · Points: 66
stredna wrote:if you don't like it, leave.
You took so much care in crafting this response that I can't tell if I should read it as

"If you don't like the info being posted on MP, don't read it"

or

"If you do not like climbing at an area without a step by step guide, don't climb there"

And I like the history part of guidebooks as well. I'd actually like to hear some of the stories from Lost City, but still wouldn't want a description of how to find climbs, where the cruxes are, etc. In fact, I am not even interested in getting beta through the grapevine or from locals. I'd aim to go there on weekdays so I wouldn't have to run into someone telling me what I am getting on, or what to expect.

The area isn't like out west where there is lots of public rock to go explore. I'm from Philly and poking around the Adirondacks isn't feasible for weekend warriors like me. I like the variety of having a spot I am allowed to go to with a little mystery to it.
Tico · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 0

I think the most telling point is that rc.com has decided to not include lc. It's also interesting that there are only three routes from millbrook on this site. Im not a gunks local anymore, but when I was it was nice to have the filter of no guide for lc, just to cut crowds a little. I mean, all you have to do is pop into R@S and ask and someone will draw you a map to the place, but some people won't do that.

I don't think lc should be posted, especially by someone who doesn't live in NP/gardiner/etc. That's how I'm defining local, Julie. There's a big difference between vacationing someplace, even extensively, and making the economic and social sacrifices to live there full time.

Also, if I don't like it, I'll stop patronizing mp.com sponsors, and let them know why. Economic sanctions on this level won't work, but it's a small message at least.

-t

divnamite · · New York, NY · Joined Aug 2007 · Points: 90

It's funny how we always tell each other to respect the local ethics, after all, locals are the ones who have to deal with the aftermath. It apparently doesn't apply to the Gunks.

divnamite · · New York, NY · Joined Aug 2007 · Points: 90
JSH wrote:Chris, Jonathan et al.: Here is a question for which I've heard a lot of meandering around, but never a convincing answer. You say that your experience at LC is enhanced by the lack of information. This can, of course, be easily accomplished by your own personal choices anywhere, anytime - just don't read the book, or click on the page. How exactly does depriving *others* of information, then, enhance your experience? How can you justify that cost to other climbers?
Dont' want to start a flame war. But this is the same argument people made about bolting a trad route. If you want trad, just don't clip. Just about everyone know it's against the spirit of trad. The routes info posted here is along the same line, it's against the "spirit" of this crag.
JSH wrote:However, the Gunks and LC are not "local" crags. That is exactly the point here - not the definition of "local", but the definition of "community" and how to best serve everyone in it. divnamite: what is the "aftermath", given that a) LC is already a target for gang-roping guided groups, and b) the parking lot is finite and will not support hoards even if they wanted to do the c) mile+ hike to the crag?
I'm not sure what you mean by "not local" or how you define local. It's on basically private land as far as I know, it's an understanding between climbers and preserve that climbing is allowed. The worse aftermath is Preserve simply ban climbing at LC, then all the local climbers (from NYC to Boston community) lose access.

With all that said, I respect 1st amendment right more than a local crag, so feel free to post anything you want.
Tom Halicki · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jun 2006 · Points: 35

I'm against posting Lost City. Rich's post referenced above says it all. Keeping Lost City undocumented is a very strong tradition in the Gunks. God forbid anyone having a little adventure. And frankly, for the vast majority of climbers the routes at the Trapps and Nears are much more agreeable.

If you want to put energy into something, put it towards getting Skytop reopened to the general public. There's a whole generation of climbers who haven't had the pleasure of climbing there.

john strand · · southern colo · Joined May 2008 · Points: 1,640

AH HA a reasonable response ! Skytop was a really good grag, my Gunk's fave. About posting up LC ??? It's not that big a crag the routes are fairly easy to find. It would certainly suck if "unknown" routes got bolted and then the area got closed. Speaking of bolts... there are 4 routes at LC with some bolts ? Or chopped ?

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Northeastern States
Post a Reply to "Lost City"

Log In to Reply

Join the Community

Create your FREE account today!
Already have an account? Login to close this notice.

Get Started.