Losing Weight While Getting Stronger.....

Hello MP Members,

I have a few ideas I would like to bounce off of all of you... I need to lose about 20 lbs, however I would like to maintain if not increase my current bouldering level. My idea is that for every pound I lose, I will add a pound to a weight belt during my weekly bouldering circuit/session. By the time I reach my goal weight of 150 lbs I will be bouldering with a 20 lb weight belt. Does this seem like it would work? Good/Bad idea?

- The bouldering will take place at the gym (once a week)
- I will do the same circuit of 15-20 problems every session
- I will be sport climbing every Sat & Sun (without the weightbelt)

Doesn't sound like something I'd be interested in doing, but if you can have fun with it, I don't see why it wouldn't work. Might even help your technique.

The only thing I can think of as being problematic is if you start losing weight too fast (more than a couple pounds a week) you are probably going to lose muscle. Weight belt or no weight belt.

Make sure you're getting at least 80 - 160 grams of high quality (eggs, whey, quinoa, milk, meat) protein daily. And not all at once.

I'm not an expert, but Arnold S.'s books have some pretty good advice on muscle building and fat loss in general.

I think your best bet would be to just increase your cardio 300 percent and cut out sweets and alcohol, then you can still eat enough food to keep building muscle but will drop weight.

Forgot to mention...

-Cardio 3 times a week

Couple of things: muscle weighs more than fat, so you may find yourself getting thinner and actually GAINING weight, at least at first. Also, you may get more benefit varying your routine. That will work different muscles differently, and the mental stimulation will help your physical well being. Also, make sure you rest enough.

Good luck. I used to lift weights like crazy, and was up to about 205 pounds, solid mscle, but my climbing suffered. Now I bike, hike, ski, climb & do tons of yoga, I am at 175 pounds, and climbing, biking & hiking are much improved because I'm not carrying the extra muscle.

Thanks for the replies, however, I think you are misunderstanding me. I will not be starting any sort of weight lifting regimen. Only bouldering with a weight belt, sport climbing outdoors, and doing cardio.

Personally, if it was me, I'd lose the weight belt. It would artificially alter my weight and affect my balance so that when I'm going for that hard send, I would still climb like I've got a weight belt on. Contrary to popular opinion, bouldering is not all about strength. Subtleties matter. Plus I would want to benefit immediately from any advantage that I have from less weight - instant gratification kind of like video games. I've unintentionally dropped weight in the past and every time I'm really really happy with how much better I climb. Then I start eating normally again and I'm really happy with how much better I feel when I'm not climbing.

Try a weight vest, not a belt. It will spread the extra pounds out and keep your center of gravity at a more natural point. It's WAY easier to lose 20 pounds of fat than gain 20 pounds of muscle, so you'll loose weight even if your getting a lot stronger. Try it, if it works, great, if not, lesson learned.

If your goal is to improve your climbing, then do things that will improve your climbing, not arbitrary routines that are based on some perception of mathematical symmetry.

If your goal is to look good in a bikini, then don't post in a climbing forum.

The only way to really burn fat is through aerobic, or cardiovascular exercise. Climbing is anaerobic, and builds muscle but really doesn't burn fat. So, you've got to do aerobic exercise (run, bike, hike uphill) that elevates your heart rate for 30+ minutes at least 3 times a week, if not more frequently.

And, get a heart rate monitor. Above around 160 beats per minute (and less if you're older than 25), your body cannot burn fat for energy, and must catabolize or break down protein (muscle tissue) to meet its energy needs. That's why marathoners are stick thin. There are formulas for determining your best aerobic heart rate. But if you climb consistently and work out aerobically, the weight should come off pretty easily.

JohnJ80302 wrote:The only way to really burn fat is through aerobic, or cardiovascular exercise.

JohnJ80302 wrote:Climbing is anaerobic, and builds muscle but really doesn't burn fat.

JohnJ80302 wrote: you've got to do aerobic exercise that elevates your heart rate for 30+ minutes at least 3 times a week, if not more frequently.

JohnJ80302 wrote:Above around 160 beats per minute your body cannot burn fat for energy, and must catabolize or break down protein (muscle tissue) to meet its energy needs.

Are you sure about these statements? Do you have any references to back this up? Not being a jerk, I would sincerely like to know since it seems incorrect.

As for the second statement, I'm absolutely certain that climbing is not necessarily anaerobic--it depends how you do it. Its certainly possible to climb at an aerobic level; I do it all the time for training purposes, and most redpoint & onsight route climbing takes place largely at an aerobic level with brief (if any) anaerobic excursions.

I'm particularly curious about the 4th statement....

What is the goal here? Is it to become a stronger boulderer, a better sport climber, or lose 20lbs?

Have you trained with a weight belt in the past? If so what weight have you been using? I think wearing the belt for the entire session is a bad idea. I also think climbing the same 15-20 problems each week for the entire period is not the best idea.

I think you would be better off climbing without the belt for 75% of your workout. I would start off easy with some easy problems and slowly work your way up to your V-max. Then I would pick out four problems in the gym at or above your max and give yourself 15 min to send each. Make sure these four are different problems week to week. Not saying you can never go back to the problems you picked on the first week. Just try and mix it up from week to week.

After the hour of attempts take a little break then go back and do the same problems you
did to warm up with the weight belt on. Avoid problems that are excessively crimpy or tweaky. Basically look for problems that are vertical or overhanging with good reaches between good holds. Make this part of your workout as aerobic as possible. If that requires running laps on the same problems then so be it.

My thoughts are that there is no training method that can replace just climbing and squeezing really hard and when your head is telling you that your about to pitch off you tell your head to shut up as you make another move, and another and another and then you at the chains or on top of the boulder.

sure allot of the tips already mention sound great and reminds me of how much are body is like a machine. With that you have to keep an eye on what your putting into that machine. eat the right food at the right times and be strict with that. what has worked for men is to eat food (not food like substances), mostly plants, and not that much.

I think that you are all misunderstanding this...

-I am not trying to get buff and look good for the pool
-All my climbing goals are outdoors (onsight/redpoint)
-I will be eating clean and doing cardio 3x a week
-I am not going to be adding additional weight (Total weight = never more than 170 lbs)

The premise of this experiment is that while I am losing weight I will always be climbing at my original weight in the gym... Say I lost 2 pounds since last weeks bouldering session, then I will add those 2 pounds back into my weight belt. In theory, when I go out to do my projects I should have some extra spring in my step and send easily.

Monomaniac wrote: Are you sure about these statements? Do you have any references to back this up? Not being a jerk, I would sincerely like to know since it seems incorrect.

JohnJ80302 wrote:The only way to really burn fat is through aerobic, or cardiovascular exercise.

Among Mono's other questions, I'm pretty sure this one's off, or at least so narrowly focused as to be wrong in practical effect.

While it may be true that only aerobic exercise burns fat in the moment of work, that's not the whole picture. The effects of exercise spill into muscle activity and metabolism for hours afterward. Burst of anaerobic effort can have a cumulative aerobic effect. Indeed, there are studies showing that adding sprints to the mix substantially increase calorie burn and the weightloss benefits of low intensity aerobic exercise.

Strangely too, it actually helps endurance. Someone who runs long once or twice a week and works sprints once or twice a week gets almost as much endurance benefit as someone plodding miles and miles every day--plus he gets the high intensity benefits and doesn't put all those miles on his joints.

Which reminds me of a question I asked Mono once after he said he stopped running to save his joints for more decades of climbing... Are you familiar with the literature about sprint work and would that be a satisfactory compromise?

CN-
I would definitely like to see an update as your experiment progresses. Over the years I've come to believe that almost any training routine will work, provided that it's done consistently. The most difficult part of increasing performance level is maintaining the stimulus that will cause the body to adapt and become stronger, while not creating so much stress as to cause burn out and injuries.
If you're psyched to try this system and it will keep you motivated then that's already a huge benefit. The two things that you mention which concern me are,

1) Replacing lost weight w/ added Kg's on the weight belt. As someone else mentioned this is going to redistribute your total mass on your skeletal system. I have no evidence, other than anecdotal, to prove this but I would be very aware of how your fingers are fairing using a weight belt or a vest. The weighted belt or vest seem to put more stress on the fingers. Most of the climbers I know that train w/ extra weight prefer using ankle weights, mainly because it teaches you to really use your feet since the extra weight wants to pull your feet off the holds and also it really makes your core musculature work to control your weighted feet. (Note: this may not apply to some of us, at least not me, since the guys I'm talking about are solid all around 14 climbers and may simply be mutants.)

2) I was curious to know if you've been doing cardio 3 times a week already? I'm assuming not. In the overall scheme of training on thing you want to keep in mind is the total work load on your body. In working w/ people wanting to make performance gains in an activity I've often run across the phenomena of someone jumping into training aggressively and inadvertently bumping their total workload to the point that they aren't recovering from their "active rest" days. I whole heartedly believe that most climbers could stand to do a little cross training to aid in injury prevention and performance but unless your conditioned to it, doing an hour of cardio 3X/wk is a significant stress that your body also has to recover from. If your most interested in climbing harder, I'd say focus on that and add the cardio in slowly so it doesn't interfere with recovering from your climbing/training sessions.

If you're climbing consistently and have your diet dialed in as far as what and how much your consuming you should see some weight loss from that alone. (Note: as far as diet goes, my opinion is that you've simply got to educate yourself and experiment to find out what works for you... a lot of trainers and physicians would have a fit w/ the way I eat, but it works for me.)
There's my two cents worth. Good luck and let us all know how the routine works out for ya.
cheers, BA

JohnJ80302 wrote:The only way to really burn fat is through aerobic, or cardiovascular exercise. Climbing is anaerobic, and builds muscle but really doesn't burn fat. So, you've got to do aerobic exercise (run, bike, hike uphill) that elevates your heart rate for 30+ minutes at least 3 times a week, if not more frequently. And, get a heart rate monitor. Above around 160 beats per minute (and less if you're older than 25), your body cannot burn fat for energy, and must catabolize or break down protein (muscle tissue) to meet its energy needs. That's why marathoners are stick thin. There are formulas for determining your best aerobic heart rate. But if you climb consistently and work out aerobically, the weight should come off pretty easily.

Human Growth Hormone is actually responsible for a lot of fat burning, and a 30 second burst of intense anaerobic exercise sets off a higher release curve than 30 minutes of moderate cardio. Not that cardio isn't critical, but you will see more health benefits from doing an intense 5 minute workout three times a day than one 30 minute jog. Eating patterns and carefully regulating your blood sugar level in relation to exercise is the most important method to burn fat and build muscle. HGH is only produced in the absence on insulin, insulin is present whenever your body is processing sugars/carbs. Don't eat for an hour or two before a workout, after you warm up a little do a serious little bout of burst exercise to set off the HGH curve, then continue your session. HGH is produced for roughly 90 minutes after it is stimulated, once the process is started nothing can increase or prolong it, all you can do is stop it dead in its tracks with insulin (eating carbs or whey protein [only insulinemic protein known]). As well, you get a big 3 hour curve the first 3 hours of sleep, so don't eat anything other than protein and fiber for at least 2 or 3 hours before you go to bed. That last part seems to make all the difference in the world to me. I can lose 10 pounds of fat in a week just by not eating after 4 or 5 pm.

Intriguing stuff, EVS. What kind of sources is it from?

A recent book called The Nutrient Timing Cycle or something like that talks about the benefit of sugars immediately after a workout to stimulate muscle recovery. So I always down a chocolate milk after after lifting. Your information indicates I'm blocking a hormonal benefit of exercise. Can you (or anyone) comment?

Just a couple anecdotal, observations. Over many years I've seen quite a few people in climbing gyms "training" with weight belts, either climbing in them, or just doing weighted pullups. None of the climbers I observed doing this were climbing at exceptionally high levels to begin with, and they certainly did not really improve their climbing with this technique either.

Also, this is more of a question on combining cardio workouts with power/strength-based climbing workouts: has anyone found a reasonable combination of intense cardio with intense climbing training?

I got into cycling about a year ago, and found that, while it was excellent cardio, burned a lot of calories, and really reduced my weight, it was terrible for climbing. Any time that I did a significant ride of 50 miles or more, I would be wrecked for the next few days of climbing; I really could not train hard climbing while cycling a lot.

Shawn Mitchell wrote: Which reminds me of a question I asked Mono once after he said he stopped running to save his joints for more decades of climbing... Are you familiar with the literature about sprint work and would that be a satisfactory compromise?

I'm familiar, and no, I don't think it would be satisfactory. I actually like long-distance trail running for the pure joy of it. Like hiking but faster. Reducing the # of miles would defeat the purpose.

Plus I'm confident that based on the particular location of my arthritis (1MTP join in L foot), sprinting would be more harmful than long-distance running.

Fair enough. But you also lamented that biking didn't seem to give you the same cardio torching. So I wondered if you you could squeeze in a little running for the intensity.

And sorry about the arthritis. Tough...not even a weekly or occasional trail run?

In my experience, I've tried many things to decrease weight and increase climbing ability. Overall, I've discovered, that climbing is the best training for climbing, and don't run laps on the same problems over and over again, you don't learn anything new and your muscles don't learn anything new. Training for endurance is a great way to get stronger and drop some weight at the same time, it also makes you a more efficient climber.

Also, I'd agree with dudemanguybro, unless you're like 5'6", 150 lbs seems rather small...