Lessons Learned
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I'm sick of reading and rereading the same threads over and over, so here goes: What are some lessons that you guys have learned the hard way? I have one to get this started. |
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I think that's a pretty common one. Being new to trad myself I love it when a guide book tells you the gear you'll need. When I climb at devils lake I usually end up bringing too much gear. That's the biggest thing that's holding me back with trad climbing and probably the major reason I can lead mid 11's sport and only 8/9's trad. |
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When you are getting ready to climb a route that you have never climbed before make sure you have either a experienced partner or a proper length rope or better yet both. |
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I also pack a lot of extra cams - if the guidebook says doubles, I bring triples. If it says up to 3 inch cams, I throw a couple of #4s on there just in case. My motto is this - it's better to have a few big-bros and hexes and pitons and copperheads along - than need them and not have them. When I don't need this gear (ie on a 30 foot sport route), I just consider it training weight, and bring it along anyway. |
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A very common mistake is trying to work through the grades on trad climbs. Instead, work on being a good climber, not a good trad climber, then once you have achieved that, it is very easy to apply "good climbing" skills to the sub-discipline of trad climbing. |
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Mike Anderson wrote:A very common mistake is trying to work through the grades on trad climbs. Instead, work on being a good climber, not a good trad climber, then once you have achieved that, it is very easy to apply "good climbing" skills to the sub-discipline of trad climbing. The fastest way to becoming a good climber is bouldering and sport climbing.+1. So true. |
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Good point about learning through sport climbing, but we've seen serious accidents at the crags involving folks with lots of "skill" but little experience, so a balance and careful progress are needed. Sport climbing is virtually all about face moves. Can't get good at cracks by only clipping bolts. Back in days of yor, my friends and I used to climb on the Apron in the Valley a lot, but we quickly realized we weren't developing the chops for all those OTHER routes that looked so enticing. Time to hit the cracks, starting at the low grades and working on up. |
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It took Alex Huber about 3 weeks to learn how to climb cracks well enough to make the 2nd free ascent of the Salathe Wall. I dare say his decades of sport climbing were a bigger factor than the time he spent learning to climb cracks and place gear. |
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Mike Anderson wrote:It took Alex Huber about 3 weeks to learn how to climb cracks well enough to make the 2nd free ascent of the Salathe Wall. I dare say his decades of sport climbing were a bigger factor than the time he spent learning to climb cracks and place gear.Perhaps. Alex Huber is also a superhuman freak of nature created by cross-breeding chimpanzees with velociraptors. Most normal humans, myself included, need more than 3 weeks to figure out what to do with 'tips cracks and offwidths, regardless of pulling power. |
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Chris Drover wrote: Perhaps. Alex Huber is also a superhuman freak of nature created by cross-breeding chimpanzees with velociraptors. Most normal humans, myself included, need more than 3 weeks to figure out what to do with 'tips cracks and offwidths, regardless of pulling power.Really, or is this just a rationalization created by your ego? You don't know if you need more than three weeks unless you try it, you are speculating. I would argue that someone who has mastered 5.13+ level footwork can easily adapt these skills to offwidths and finger cracks, which are mostly a matter of footwork. True, few people will attain those grades, so say your goal is to be solid on 5.10 trad...you'll get there a lot faster by first climbing 5.12 sport, IMO. I could be wrong. |
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Mike Anderson wrote: Really, or is this just a rationalization created by your ego? You don't know if you need more than three weeks unless you try it, you are speculating. I would argue that someone who has mastered 5.13+ level footwork can easily adapt these skills to offwidths and finger cracks, which are mostly a matter of footwork. True, few people will attain those grades, so say your goal is to be solid on 5.10 trad...you'll get there a lot faster by first climbing 5.12 sport, IMO. I could be wrong.Alright rather than debate nature vs. nurture, I'll just say that I don't consider your argument proven on the basis of "it worked for Alex Huber". I do agree that being a stronger climber gives a great foundation for leading harder trad. It's much easier to focus on funky crack technique and questionable gear when you aren't pumping out. That being said... I've met 5.12 sport climbers that can't hand jam. |
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Chris Drover wrote: Alright rather than debate nature vs. nurture, I'll just say that I don't consider your argument proven on the basis of "it worked for Alex Huber". I do agree that being a stronger climber gives a great foundation for leading harder trad. It's much easier to focus on funky crack technique and questionable gear when you aren't pumping out. That being said... I've met 5.12 sport climbers that can't hand jam.And your argument is not proven by saying that "you know 5.12 sport climbers who can't handjam. A statement such as yours is building on the mystique of trad/crack climbing and its polarization from "weak sporto" climbing, which has been prevalent among a lot of climbers, but has never really been true. For every 5.12 sport climber who can't jam, I'll show you a 5.13 sport climber who "dabbles" in 11+ trad. Back in the 1980s, Steve Hong was putting up some of the hardest cracks in the world at the time, and also climbing pretty hard sport as well. He stated in an interview that the techniques needed to climb high end cracks were simplistic and trivial when compared to the techniques needed to climb high-end sport. More recently, strong sport climbers and boulderers like Trotter, Segal, Honnold, and about any strong Euro you can name have made the transition into hard trad fairly easily. None of them "worked up through the grades." You are going to climb 5.13 trad more easily if you have trained to climb 5.13 sport than if you work your way up through 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12 trad. And honestly, the movement of hard trad lines, even those that are pure cracks, often requires a lot of "sporty" technique. A 5.13 sport climber is likely going to learn to climb cracks of a comparable grade much more quickly than a 5.13 crack-only climber will make the transition to comparable sport. However, all of this breaks down when we look at sandbagged places like the Gunks, Seneca, or Jtree. I have seen solid v15/5.15b climbers release their bowels and walk away crying just from looking at High Exposure. :) |
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Goats are evil and helmets save lives. |
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Chris Drover wrote: That being said... I've met 5.12 sport climbers that can't hand jam.I've also seen sport guys face climb a 5.8 hands crack and turn it into 5.11 face routes cuz they can't trust/use jams. |
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Situational awareness is priceless, helmets save lives, and one size, sure as fook, does not fit all. |
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If you fall on a placement, when you get back to the placement, check the placement. |
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Steve Murphy wrote:Goats are evil and helmets save lives.Are those goats from nearby Quandary like 2 years ago. Those two goats I ran across=evil. |
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Those look like leavenworth goats |
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Don't forget to put the cooler of beer in the car in the morning. |
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josh olson's advice is really, really good advice. |
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I have the same problem with climbing above gear. I have two climbing falls and both of them beat up the same ankle. I hate falling and it's been holding me back. My lesson learned, When it doubt, climb faster. |