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Feb 18, 2011
Who makes the best rice?
AhK wrote:
Alright, I like some of the posts that are on here, but let's try to get back to some more lessons that you guys have learned by failing. This could include: tricks for pulling ropes in nasty cracks, tips on hauling, getting ropes unstuck, savvy anchor methods, or anything else that you guys were forced to learn from experience.


tricks for pulling ropes in nasty cracks...be careful, do shorter raps....Extra tip...wear a helmet if pulling through cracks or chimneys with loose rock. Sucks no matter what. And your rope gets dirty....and no one likes that. Now that I think about it...Stick to granite domes.

tips on hauling...ask Mark Hudon or PTPPete.

getting ropes unstuck...shorter raps can help. Once stuck, the ol' slingshot method is about as good as it gets IME. Keep a knife in your pocket or be ready to finagle a way to the stuck spot with your dynamic tag line or second half rope.

savvy anchor methods...bunny ears or some clove hitches, anchor with the rope then possible, simpler is better. A cordolette is the next step. ACR, quad, etc. seem cumbersome at best.

anything else that you guys were forced to learn from experience...

1. when it's time to get down, as in the case of severe precipitation and lightning, leave the whole rack if you have to.
2. regarding the 'working through the grades' conversation above...it is true that you will progress slower as a dedicated "trad" climber....but it has it's own rewards.
3. There will come a point, for us all, that if you want to progress beyond, some physical training will be necessary....no matter how lazy you are.
4. Try to avoid specialization...getting dialed in one aspect of your preferred style is good, but a wider array of experiences will have you more knowledgeable for a variety of challenges. I.E. if you excel at face or slab but don't climb much steep cracks or roofs, there might come a time where unfamiliarity with these techniques might impede your fun and/or progress.
5. Light is Right.

Stuff that works:
-ATC Guide + Metolius Bravo.
-OR Ferrosi Windshirt.
-Edelwiess PErformace 9.2.
-Metolius BigWall Chalkbag....BIG pocket.
-Patagoinia R1
-Mythos.
-USHBA Titanium Nuttool
UncleBen
From The Briar Patch
Joined Jan 12, 2007
1,533 points
Feb 21, 2011
Chew toyed
Mike Anderson wrote:
I would argue that someone who has mastered 5.13+ level footwork can easily adapt these skills to offwidths and finger cracks, which are mostly a matter of footwork. True, few people will attain those grades, so say your goal is to be solid on 5.10 trad...you'll get there a lot faster by first climbing 5.12 sport, IMO. I could be wrong.


Hey, theoretically you could do Equinox your first week trad climbing "I think..."

(Not me, personally)...and not so theoretical...


James Arnold
From Chattanooga
Joined Dec 21, 2008
71 points
Feb 21, 2011
Think it'll go?
Don't do a party of three on popular multi-pitch trad routes, unless your system is efficient, concise, and all three are at similar abilities (learned from having to wait for other parties in Eldo)

Also, and probably more importantly, make a concerted effort to make your communication with your partners as efficient as your rope management.

A few years back, I was leading two friends down/up Good Evans. The first friend was my climbing partner, and we understood each other/had a good system down. The third had only climbed with us a minimal amount, though we were all friends. Unbeknown to me, he (the third) was expecting me to lead him in all areas of this day trip, without taking much responsibility for himself. He had known what we were going to do in advance, so I assumed he had researched what the route required in terms of ability/gear. He confessed after we had rapped in and done the first pitch (him aiding it) that he had no crack ability/experience (a surprise to me based on how he had portrayed his climbing experience in the past). He also brought no lunch or food, save one nalgene, quickly gone after an hour. Storms began conglomerating, and he still couldn't make it up the 2nd pitch, w/ myself and my partner stuck at the start of the 3rd, trying to figure out what to do. I could've set up a sketchy 4-1 anchor and hauled his ass up (though this didn't occur to me at the time, and I'm not entirely sure it would've worked). We could've waited an hour to see if he'd be any more "up to it." Feeling the crunch of time w/ the storms we decided to leave him there, finish the route, rap back in to "save" him, rap to the base, and hike out from the bottom of the valley. I'll save you the details, and just say I donated 3 pieces of gear, got home at 7am the next morning, and never climbed with him again. Communication is king.
chris deulen
From Merriam, Kansas
Joined Jul 1, 2004
1,897 points
Feb 21, 2011
Easy stuff at Rifle
-sp has some of the best advice ever! Know how to get down before going up, and the rope management tips. On long crack pitches, I'll even look outside the crack to find any gear to help keep the rope out of that crack. I've seen ropes get stuck in wide cracks even when there wasn't much of a bulge,overhang or lip. Tim Hadfield
From Steamboat Springs, Co
Joined Sep 27, 2009
836 points
Feb 21, 2011
Top half of Melifluous
+ infinity for knowing how you're getting down. It's happened to me, see here:
mountainproject.com/v/trip_rep...

And to my good buddy, see here:
facebook.com/video/video.php?v...

Rope management at a belay and on a pitch is also very important to efficiency as someone else pointed out.

Improvisation is also a very important skill to learn. When you start running out of gear or get stuck somewhere you don't want to be sometimes you have to come up with things that aren't typically taught in the traditional mentorship or may be glossed over in the books.
Sam Stephens
Joined Jan 20, 2010
768 points
Jul 19, 2011
Looking at a 5.7 crack with Nick
Two pieces between you and the hospital. It's a mantra to live by, pun intended.

Tipped out isn't a good idea, even if you are out of cams in that range.

Belayer is just as important as the climber. Don't believe me? Fight your belayer for rope when you are ten feet above a number 4 nut in a shallow placement. Not so fun.

Ledges hurt.

Rope drag is a bitch. Bring slings.

Photos are sweet, but safely getting down for an old fashioned is sweeter.

There is no ego in safe climbing.

Drink water, and lots of it. Fighting off heat stroke or dehydration makes leads a lot more exciting, but not in a good way.

5.9 often means 5.11+
Josh Olson
From Durango, CO
Joined Mar 7, 2010
362 points
Aug 4, 2011
roo, my only son, the stare that takes down a herd...
-sp wrote:
Amen to that. My two-cents... - Rope management: because someday, on some pitch, that cluster-fuck will cost you time you absolutely don't have. - As you climb past a ledge/bulge/roof split by a rope-eating crack, drop a nut in at the top to keep the rope from getting swallowed. - Do NOT drop a rope over a cactus when setting up to rap. Because when your brake hand hits the spines you WILL let go. - Know how to get down before you go up.


to add to this, just this weekend I was scoping out a crag to check out the rock quality. I ended up nearly landing my hanging rappel into a giant cat claw tree (with shorts on). Ouch.
Ben Beard
From Superior, AZ
Joined Jun 9, 2009
240 points
Aug 4, 2011
Making Sauce...
Be present.

gear puller...
gear puller...


I wasn't taking the route seriously (thought it was as good as sent), and was all ready thinking about a girl I was meeting that night...

Whipped and ripped three pieces - one piece of gear kept me a couple of inches from the ground. Luckily I received this reminder to stay present without breaking both my ankles.
LML
Joined Jun 24, 2005
138 points
Aug 4, 2011
Out of the blue.  Photo by Mike W.
Hey, theoretically you could do Equinox your first week trad climbing "I think..." (Not me, personally)...and not so theoretical...
>

Yes, you are wrong. And sinker fingers, in the video is not 13. Sorry, in crack size is everything.
Greg D
From Here
Joined Apr 5, 2006
961 points
Aug 4, 2011
There is a little ice in there!
I also have seen that evil goat at Leavenworth last summer. His whole family's crazy too! Curt Nelson
From Fort Collins, CO
Joined Oct 3, 2006
470 points
Aug 4, 2011
Chew toyed
Greg D wrote:
Yes, you are wrong. And sinker fingers, in the video is not 13. Sorry, in crack size is everything.



Eh? I don't understand u.

My first week of trad (sport climbing in it's infancy @ the time) I couldn't even do 5.5, jes sayin Mike has a point...u no think so?
James Arnold
From Chattanooga
Joined Dec 21, 2008
71 points
Aug 21, 2011
Nameless boulder on the edge of the Holy Boulders ...
Shout "Watch me" to spotters and belayers if you feel yourself losing grip. And prior to starting up any highball boulder problems, ask your spotters to move pads as necessary to protect a fall.

And a famous quote: "There are bold climbers, and there are old climbers, but there are no old, bold climbers."
Lorenzo Tragen
From Flagstaff, AZ
Joined Jun 23, 2011
174 points
Aug 21, 2011
Loren Trager wrote:
"There are bold climbers, and there are old climbers, but there are no old, bold climbers."



Bull shit. Lots of old bold climbers. That's just another BS catch phrase that weak thrutchers and punters (such as myself) say to cover up the fact that they either lack the skills or are just plain scared or both.

Best advice regarding climbing...

Don't take it so seriously. It's supposed to be fun.
Yarp
Joined Jan 16, 2011
6 points
Aug 22, 2011
Have to agree that working lots of safe sport routes will teach you good climbing skills and make learning other skills easier. One thing that I see is that sport climbers seem to give up sooner and fall, downclimb or take. I think my ability to hang on for a long time in the most efficient manner comes from all those routes I did where I had to hang on and get sufficient pro to ease my fear.

I also know that some folks are just naturally talented and these folks will learn things faster than others.

Back to the post:
If the extra weight is holding you back bring less but the extra weight means you will have good pro when you need it then carry it. Bring only the gear you need.

Love to watch the trad folks at the sport crags, cordelettes, two belay devices,4 lockers daisies, knife. Good for training weight but not that helpful on sport climbs.
1Eric Rhicard
Joined Feb 15, 2006
8,670 points
Aug 22, 2011
Nice view
Steve Murphy wrote:
Goats are evil and helmets save lives.

When I was 8 in Glacier National Park I watched two kids get head butted off the board walk at the top of going to the sun, from then on I never trusted goats! I don't even turn my back while eating lunch, haha
Owen Darrow
From Garmisch,
Joined Feb 22, 2010
1,933 points
Apr 18, 2013
Orgasm Direct, Devil's Lake, 5.11a  c. 2008
BSU_Zac wrote:
I've also seen sport guys face climb a 5.8 hands crack and turn it into 5.11 face routes cuz they can't trust/use jams.


That's me!
Dylan B.
Joined Mar 31, 2006
487 points
Apr 18, 2013
Mt. Agassiz
rangerdrew wrote:
When it doubt, climb faster.


Shave 50% off of the gear recommended by SuperTopo. If ST says to bring doubles, take singles or double up in only a couple of sizes.
Ryan Nevius
From The Range of Light
Joined Dec 29, 2010
782 points
Apr 18, 2013
High Exposure
Bring a working headlamp wivanoff
Joined Mar 3, 2012
121 points
Apr 18, 2013
Me eating a cliff bar walking back from Frankenste...
Don't start celebrating until the rope you rapped down on is on the ground.

Don't climb multipitch with someone who doesn't know self rescue... or at least how to escape a belay.
Bill Kirby
From Baltimore Maryland
Joined Jul 21, 2012
143 points
Apr 11, 2015
guide book
wivanoff wrote:
Bring a working headlamp

Amen !
And I love reading these , anybody got some more ?
thebmags
Joined Jun 5, 2013
113 points
Apr 11, 2015
Red Rock
Be kind and let people behind you pass... i spent an extra 3 hours on a route due to having to sit there on belay ledges waiting for the people in front of me to finish... turned what i expected to be an 8 hour day into 11 hours. ViperScale
Joined Dec 22, 2013
181 points
Apr 11, 2015
girl40
Mike Anderson wrote:
A very common mistake is trying to work through the grades on trad climbs. Instead, work on being a good climber, not a good trad climber, then once you have achieved that, it is very easy to apply "good climbing" skills to the sub-discipline of trad climbing.

If that were really a good idea then the majority of folks here who actually do trad wouldn't climb 2-3 grades below their sport level.

Sure a few top sport performers can cross-over reasonably well in a short time, but in general there's almost nothing more terrifying to watch than 5.12 gym/sport crossovers tackling old school trad 5.10s.

All the way around there is simply way, way more involved with trad than movement and the idea the average Jim or Jill is going to weather that transition with aplomb and do it safely without coming up through the grades is fraught with problems.

Bill Kirby wrote:
Don't start celebrating until the rope you rapped down on is on the ground.

I don't know. Seen a few fuck ups over the years which convinced me not to start celebrating until you're back at your car...

NickinCO wrote:
Being new to trad myself I love it when a guide book tells you the gear you'll need. When I climb at devils lake I usually end up bringing too much gear. That's the biggest thing that's holding me back with trad climbing and probably the major reason I can lead mid 11's sport and only 8/9's trad.

I'd recommend going the opposite way - abandon the guide books and develop an eye. Being able to walk up to a rock, scope out the lines and map your abilities and gear to those lines is kind of the heart of the deal, or at least it is for FAs. If you always use guidebooks you may never develop an eye or understand what your abilities really are.

Might give it a whirl. Will you epic occasionally? Absolutely and that's a sure sign you're learning.

Risk/Reward/Repeat...
Healyje
Joined Jan 31, 2006
127 points
Apr 11, 2015
Healyje wrote:
If that were really a good idea then the majority of folks here who actually do trad wouldn't climb 2-3 grades below their sport level.

It's about trusting or not trusting your placements. Any solid 5.12 sport climber will be able follow a trad 5.12 and could certainly flash a trad 5.10 (yup, even at the Gunks). In fact, bouldering is probably the best possible training for trad.
Nivel Egres
From New York, NY
Joined Dec 10, 2014
15 points
Apr 12, 2015
Red Rock
Nivel Egres wrote:
It's about trusting or not trusting your placements. Any solid 5.12 sport climber will be able follow a trad 5.12 and could certainly flash a trad 5.10 (yup, even at the Gunks). In fact, bouldering is probably the best possible training for trad.


Climbing and placing gear are 2 completely different things. No different than saying you can top rope a 5.13 but can only lead a 5.11 sport. To be perfectly honest climbing with preset draws vs having to clip your own draws and rope are 2 different things also.

I know sport routes i can't climb without preset draws due to reach but if they are already clipped to the wall i can lead it no problem.

If you can climb to the point that you can free solo what you trad... is your trad gear placement even going to really matter?

It comes down to alot more mental than really physical ability alot of times. If you are questioning your gear placements (because you don't know what you are doing) than your grade level for what you can climb really drops.

To be honest though i love climbing trad because i don't care what level trad i climb. I just go look at a wall and try to get to the top. Who cares what level you climb. The only time i really push myself to the edge for pure climbing ability is when i am bouldering.
ViperScale
Joined Dec 22, 2013
181 points
Apr 12, 2015
Get good at falling. There is a art to it. If possible push back away from the wall so you can protect yourself and possibly avoid a ledge.

Climb in the dark on purpose so that when you epic later in life you're more prepared
JeffL
From Salt Lake City
Joined Jun 14, 2012
19 points


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