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Lead Belaying with grigri

Original Post
Brett Brotherton · · Arvada, CO · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 121

Yesterday while climbing at turkey rocks I was watching someone lead belay with a grigri in with no hand on the brake rope. They simply had a hand above the device to pull slack and the other hand was cupped holding the grigri from below, I could not see if they were pressing the lever to feed slack but I could clearly see no contact with the bake side of the rope. After watching this video it appears that they were dangerously belaying, unfortunately I was not completely sure since I haven't used a grigri before so I did not say something to the belayer as I didn't want to give bad advice. So someone correct me if i'm wrong but shouldn't you always have your hand on the brake strand when belaying with a grigri.

Also the other thing I observed was that there was consistently about 2 feet of slack extra while they were belaying there was a loop hanging almost to the ground coming out of the belay device. Maybe I am just a sissy but I don't see any reason to have 2 feet of extra slack in the event that I take a fall (I would rather have the rope tight to minimize the fall distance). The route was not overhanging and that is the only time I have heard of extra slack to prevent a hard swing into the wall.

JJNS · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2008 · Points: 531

I wouldn't worry about it man. Where you belaying somebody while you were watching this guy belay? If so that thats dangerous too. It sounds like rifle belay techniques to me. Yeah Its a good idea to keep your hand on the brake end of the rope as much as possible but people have different ways of using the device. Petzl has even put out info on the best way to use the device in which you never let go of the brake end. That was like last year but people have been using this device for a long time and have come up with their own version. The main thing is to know how the thing works and what not to do.

Brett Brotherton · · Arvada, CO · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 121

I was changing shoes while watching not belaying.

Bobby Hanson · · Spokane, WA · Joined Oct 2001 · Points: 1,230

Brett, this is the way people have been belaying with gri-gris for a long time. It isn't ideal, but it seems to work. There is a newer method, which I like better, but I don't mind when people belay me the other way (if they know what they are doing).

Also, sometimes slack in the rope is a good thing, sometimes not. If the route is steep and the climber is far from the ground, the extra slack lessens the amount of swing, preventing the climber from hitting the wall. If the route is slabby with lots of ledgefall potential, slack might be a bad thing.

Phil Lauffen · · Innsbruck, AT · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 3,098

ya every circumstance is different.

One time at Sunshine wall in the cathedral spires I saw some guy belay with a grigri on the first pitch of the standard route where he was playing with his dog and would throw out fifteen feet to his climber whenever his climber need slack. I don't think he even watched the guy.

I, of course, was petrified watching and I made some diplomatic comment about his belay and the belayer's response was: "I've never seen (climber) fall on 5.11"

They were off the route in about 2 hours, with an extremely impressive performance by both climbers. This belay style worked for both of them, so I don't see a problem with it.

Bapgar 1 · · Out of the Loop · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 90

I belay almost exclusively w/ a grigri and yes the way I use it, I always have a hand on the brake.
I have certainly seen the technique you're talking about but personally wouldn't want to rely only on the grigri locking in the event of a fall w/ no help from a little tension on the brake side of the rope.
By the way, Will's post +1
Hope everyone was able to get out and enjoy the weather this weekend,
BA

Mike Lane · · AnCapistan · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 880

There's a right way to do it. You roll your right forefinger and wedge it against the lip on the side. Then you hold your right thumb just above the knuckle of the grigri while feeding rope out with the left. You also let the rope slide through your right palm and other 3 fingers, so you maintain the brake hand just like a regular belay. Moves simple when done right.

That said, this was a technique my wife just never could get right. I was leading one of my easy routes at DH when I heard Tod Anderson say to my wife: "he's not on belay when you do that." I'm not sure if I've let her belay me after that.

Geir www.ToofastTopos.com · · Tucson/DMR · Joined Jun 2006 · Points: 2,751

what's a grigri?

Jon H · · PC, UT · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 118

Lots of people say "don't worry about it, I belay like that and it's fine" and yet, every year, several climbers get hurt badly because of shitty/idiotic/downright awful belay technique.

It's really not that hard to use the device according to manufacturer's recommendations....

chris deulen · · Denver-ish, CO · Joined Jul 2004 · Points: 1,710

It's virtually impossible to feed out slack on a grigri quickly with your break hand holding the rope (and also looks/feels awkward). The device will lock up since that's what it's designed to do. If the leader were to fall and the break hand weren't on, it would still catch the climber (unless you're using a new rope that's, say, <9.5, and even then...). I always have my break hand pinching the device in the middle to feed slack w/ the other hand. If the leader falls, I slide my break hand to the rope and lock it off.

Jasmine Kall · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2008 · Points: 40

I used a grigri for the first time in years on Saturday and could not figure out how you would lead belay with one at all. Just stuck to toproping with it.

Colin Kenneth · · Fort Collins, co · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 280
chris deulen wrote:It's virtually impossible to feed out slack on a grigri quickly with your break hand holding the rope (and also looks/feels awkward).
I disagree. I keep a closed "ring lock" around the brake rope while able to squeeze the device with my palm against the bent rope feed to keep it from engaging, and it can be done without needing large hands etc. The trick is, you just have to be squeezing before it engages anyway.

In my opinion, there are too many people with the "nothing has happened yet, so it won't happen," mentality. There are plenty of accounts of people with "auto-locking belay devices" who HAVE found out, that it isn't automatic.

Why would someone argue that it isn't better to keep a brake hand on? Why are people defending not using a belay device entirely properly? As for the person who claims that people have come up with their own methods, and it's peztl's deal not to release an instructional video until a year ago: the grigri came with an instruction booklet. I'm really concerned how few people bother to read the generally short literature that comes with the gear you trust you life, or someone ELSE'S life with.

But then, I'm also not climbing with you. So, good luck. For most of you, yes, probably nothing will happen. But the guy going 120mph down the highway is at least more LIKELY to have an accident; even if some of them luck out.
Ben Beard · · Superior, AZ · Joined Jun 2009 · Points: 215

I think Mike Lane describes the method perfectly. Maybe it isn't clear in Mike's description, but to feed slack out quickly with that method you can briefly hold the cam (where the brake lever attaches) down with your right thumb. Just remember to do this briefly, as you are stopping the autolock cam during this process.

Another thing to add to the best practice method of keeping your brake hand always on the rope, I always (and make my partners as well) put a locker into a knot on the rope before the grigri if for any reason they need to take their brake hand off.

Buff Johnson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2005 · Points: 1,145

I kinda prefer the pinkie method; I don't really think it matters if you have your hand on top of or from below as long as you are able to slide off the cam and control the brake-side of the rope.

Anonymous · · Unknown Hometown · Joined unknown · Points: 0

Nice conversation and all, but wasn't the OP a troll?

I personally use the new method and like it a lot for 1 pitch climbs.

Buff Johnson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2005 · Points: 1,145

something not related, the OP has a pic of the Eldo accidents in the profile page -- how is getting benighted tracked as a climbing accident? As soon as the sun goes down, your ankle magically fractures; or is there a pumpkin factor in Eldo I have yet to turn into??

I do my best work at night. I ..oh.. I think I'll leave that thought right where it is

Luke to Zuke · · Anchorage · Joined Apr 2008 · Points: 220

Gri-gri s are for bitches! Why have an auto-lock if you don't trust the auto-lock? Why place a cam if you don't trust the cam?

I know guys -back in the day- used body belays and swamis... they stopped the rope by friction around their ass and hands!
Ball up and catch the guy.- no matter the cost(a little skin)

BTW your guy's techniques sound like they'd pinch some skin if they actually fell, while you were doing your finger dance around the device.

Buff Johnson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2005 · Points: 1,145
C K Mills wrote: But the guy going 120mph down the highway is at least more LIKELY to have an accident; even if some of them luck out.
Especially when everyone else is trying to do 210; some dyslexic a-hole has to try and control traffic at 120, doesn't even use a turn signal when passing either, argh.. take a right turn for once, rednecks
M Dudley · · Central Rockies · Joined Jun 2010 · Points: 30

If your technology has surpassed your ability,then you shouldn't use it.
For every moving part you add to a system you increase the chances of failure.
I'm with Zuke, on this one. Throw the thing away. try an A.T.C., or maybe the old body belay. Only problem with that is you have to pay attention.

Buff Johnson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2005 · Points: 1,145
Will Anglin wrote:IF YOU LEAD BELAY WITH A GRIGRI YOU WILL DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not for nuthin, but does anyone else see the problem?

I don't know, I've belayed a few leaders, haven't had heart failure yet; but then again, there is a first time for everyone.
Anonymous · · Unknown Hometown · Joined unknown · Points: 0
M Dudley wrote: Throw the thing away. try an A.T.C.

And let me know where that trash can is. :)
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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