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Lance Armstrong
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By DrunkenHaymitch
From Madison, WI
Jan 15, 2013

Everyone dopes (doped) in cycling, it's just how the game is played. I don't blame him for doing it, it's just what you had to do to keep up.

What I don't like about LA is that he seemed hellbent to destroy anyone who questioned whether or not he rode clean. Greg LeMond comes to mind. It's one thing to cheat and deny it but you don't need to be a complete douchenozzle when people start to question you, especially when other big names in the sport were outed (Jan Ullrich, Tyler Hamilton, Floyd Landis, etc).

I'm more interested to see if there were officials in the UCI who were privately condoning doping in the sport and working to cover things up or not. There was the alleged positive test of LA at the tour de suisse which was suppossedly covered up by the UCI.


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By Scott McMahon
From Boulder, CO
Jan 15, 2013
Bocan

jarthur wrote:
If anyone hasn't seen it you should check out "Bigger, Stronger, Faster." I found it interesting after talking about this movie with a friend he informed me when he lived in Los Angeles they had "Natural" weight lifting competitions because there was no way in hell in the world of professional body building someone that didn't use steroids was going to win one of those competitions so a sterdoid-free competition was created for those that opted out from using performance enhancers.


Yeah totally...I mean you SEE those guys? There's NO WAY you can get that big and at least do cycles in between comps. Let's be realistic!


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By Crag Dweller
From New York, NY
Jan 15, 2013
My navigator keeps me from getting lost

A few thoughts come to mind after reading the responses so far:

- Most of those who responded appear to have very limited understanding or experience with professional cycling

- It's completely incorrect to say that every cyclist (or elite athlete) doped. The vast majority of them did not. The general public just hasn't heard of them because, well, they didn't cheat and become famous as a result. Their success and careers were severely affected by LA and the others who did dope.

- The 'level playing field' defense is inaccurate and based on a misunderstanding of how PEDs work. Two individuals could be on the exact same doping program with vastly different results. One might go onto win 7 tours while the other only moves from middle of the field to top third.

- There has been speculation that LA's cancer was caused by doping, which makes the cancer survivor story very different and less admirable, IMO


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By Chris treggE
Administrator
From Madison, WI
Jan 15, 2013
This problem haunted my dreams for 6 years after failing to send in 2008.  Finally got to try it again -- now I can sleep.  Photo Darin Limvere.

DrunkenHaymitch wrote:
What I don't like about LA is that he seemed hellbent to destroy anyone who questioned whether or not he rode clean. Greg LeMond comes to mind.


+1.

Thanks for your response Crag Dweller.

Lance can go away now.


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By Adam B
From Wheat Ridge, CO
Jan 15, 2013
Middle St. Vrain

Didn't Bill Romonowski justify his steroid use while playing for the Donkeys saying... "that's what I had to do to keep up with the Blacks.." Great role model that guy!

Cheatin is cheatin, lyin is lyin and Douchebags are Douchebags.


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By Ian Stewart
Jan 15, 2013

I second the movie suggestion for Bigger Stronger Faster. I'll also suggest reading The Secret Race by Tyler Hamilton.

I don't really care if professional athletes dope. In sports where doping is so prevalent, the only way you can keep up with the dopers is to dope yourself. Being 10th and riding clean, for most people, isn't as desirable as being 1st and riding with drugs.

The problem with Lance is that he's a complete cunt that would throw even his "friends" under the bus if it meant keeping himself out of trouble or on top of the podium.

If he was a nice guy and admitted to his guilt when all of his peers were doing the same it would have been a whole different story. But he didn't, so fuck'im.


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By RockinOut
From NY, NY
Jan 15, 2013
Gear

Boissal wrote:
Right right, it's a real shame that ethical considerations need apply to red blooded Americans too... He should get a pass just because he's from TX uh?



He`s from texas? I didnt know what state you`re from decides your fate....


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By Ryan Williams
Administrator
From London (sort of)
Jan 15, 2013
El Chorro

jarthur wrote:
I found it interesting after talking about this movie with a friend he informed me when he lived in Los Angeles they had "Natural" weight lifting competitions because there was no way in hell in the world of professional body building someone that didn't use steroids was going to win one of those competitions so a sterdoid-free competition was created for those that opted out from using performance enhancers.


Award for longest sentence on Mountain Proj?


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By Scott McMahon
From Boulder, CO
Jan 15, 2013
Bocan

Adam B wrote:
Didn't Bill Romonowski justify his steroid use while playing for the Donkeys saying... "that's what I had to do to keep up with the Blacks.." Great role model that guy! Cheatin is cheatin, lyin is lyin and Douchebags are Douchebags.


Bill went to my high school in Rockville (Vernon), CT. He bought our football team an entire new gym. Of course that doesn't dimminish his rep.


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By drmartindell
From Homer, Ak
Jan 15, 2013

DrunkenHaymitch wrote:
What I don't like about LA is that he seemed hellbent to destroy anyone who questioned whether or not he rode clean....


Yeah, this is my problem with him as well. I had the displeasure to read his book a few years ago. A good bit of it was him railing against the anti-doping people. Doing everything he could to proclaim and convince you of his innocence. At the time I was like, wow ok, this guy is pissed off. Now I'm just like wow, ok, this is one of the douchiest guys I've ever read about.


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By Christian
From Casa do Cacete
Jan 15, 2013
Ooops...

...is an asshole.


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By matt davies
Jan 15, 2013

Crag Dweller wrote:
- There has been speculation that LA's cancer was caused by doping, which makes the cancer survivor story very different and less admirable, IMO

I understand that he used his cancer-survivor status to initially deflect the doping heat- getting waivers for testosterone & whatnot, masking what he was really doing with a sob story.
I don't understand the nuances of PED's, but I am intimately familiar with cancer survivorship, and he duped a lot of people who desperately wanted to believe in the authenticity of his miracle.

It's an interesting moral calculus whether it matters if he was "for real" in terms of the real-world inspiration, hope, and charity he provided for others battling C-monster.
I think it does, and I think Armstrong is a bad guy.


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By "H"
From Manitou Springs
Jan 15, 2013
Axes glistening in the sun

The only people that really care are the people who are going to sue him after this interview comes out. From what I have read people are lining up to get back what he was paid for various things. And rightfully so. He might even get prosecuted.
After this I'm just morbidly curious about what he has to say. Then he can just drift away. Apparently all the top cyclists allegedly dope. Doesn't make it right though.


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By Olaf Mitchell
From Paia, Maui, Hi,
Jan 16, 2013
rockerwaves

IMO: Lance s a VERY VERY BAD BOY.
I mean he is, a bad ass.


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By Old and Busted
From Centennial, CO
Jan 16, 2013
Stabby

Sums it up
Sums it up


I would be far, FAR more interested in prosecuting every GD cyclist who blew through a stop sign while I was waiting my turn.


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By Jake Jones
From Richmond, VA
Jan 16, 2013
Me and the offspring walking back to the car after a day of cragging.

He teabagged a lot of people with that half empty scrotum. It's a damn shame, that's what it is.


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By snicho
From Boulder, CO
Jan 16, 2013
me on Binou's Crack in Indian Creek

what is the potential of this happening in climbing? especially now that the competition side of things has the potential of becoming an olympic sport?


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By camhead
From Vandalia, Appalachia
Jan 16, 2013
You stay away from mah pig!

Crag Dweller wrote:
...Two individuals could be on the exact same doping program with vastly different results. One might go onto win 7 tours while the other only moves from middle of the field to top third.


So... you're saying that genetics make a big difference in performance? That's not really surprising.


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By 1Eric Rhicard
Jan 16, 2013
It is a good sized roof. Photo: Jimbo

DrunkenHaymitch wrote:
What I don't like about LA is that he seemed hellbent to destroy anyone who questioned whether or not he rode clean. Greg LeMond comes to mind. It's one thing to cheat and deny it but you don't need to be a complete douchenozzle when people start to question you, especially when other big names in the sport were outed (Jan Ullrich, Tyler Hamilton, Floyd Landis, etc).


Lance needs to come out and admits what we already know about his doping and the really nasty stuff he did to people that questioned and accused him of doping.

In order to get any respect from me however, he needs to make direct amends to those he screwed over. I would like to see him put forth an outline of what he will do to help repair the damage he did to so many peoples reputations. Saying "sorry" is not enough.

As far as paying sponsors back. Not worried they got the air time they wanted.

After that he can just go away.


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By Alvaro Arnal
Administrator
From Aspen, CO
Jan 16, 2013
Pup Tent OS

snicho wrote:
what is the potential of this happening in climbing? especially now that the competition side of things has the potential of becoming an olympic sport?


Probably happens already. Wouldn't surprise me at all.


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By Crag Dweller
From New York, NY
Jan 16, 2013
My navigator keeps me from getting lost

camhead wrote:
So... you're saying that genetics make a big difference in performance? That's not really surprising.


Yes, and the twist is that someone who has less natural potential will derive greater benefits from PEDs. So, it's not as though everyone can dope and the bar will raise equally for everyone. There may very well have been athletes competing against LA who had more natural ability and would have beaten him had he not been doping.


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By Alex Quitiquit
From Salt Lake City
Jan 16, 2013
meow


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By jarthur
From Westminster, CO
Jan 16, 2013
My dogs got ups yo!

Ryan Williams wrote:
Award for longest sentence on Mountain Proj?

Award for not being able to spell the word "Project."


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By topher donahue
Jan 16, 2013

Do we hold athletes up to such high standards to compensate somehow for letting crooks rule the rest of our world?

If Lance was a banker, lobbyist or politician, he'd be getting a huge bonus about now.


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By Jake Jones
From Richmond, VA
Jan 16, 2013
Me and the offspring walking back to the car after a day of cragging.

topher donahue wrote:
Do we hold athletes up to such high standards to compensate somehow for letting crooks rule the rest of our world? If Lance was a banker, lobbyist or politician, he'd be getting a huge bonus about now.


Yes, I believe to a degree. I totally agree. It's an unfortunate vicious circle unfortunately. You have to be in an inner circle of privelege and wealth and be corrupt to get elected in the first place in the majority of cases, and the people with the most money are the ones making the laws benefit the upper tiers of that group- the people with the most money. Huge run-on sentence there.

Lance lacks the fortitude that he feigned throughout his career. For me, this is the most disconcerting part of it. Not that he lacked it, but that I believed he didn't. I think it will be interesting to see if he "goes after" anyone inside that allowed him to dope and operate against regulations with impunity for so many years. I imagine it would be rather difficult to go on for such an extended period of time without help with testing (advanced notice of tests, outside urine and/or blood or however they test, etc). I have a feeling this is much more involved than one guy doping for a decade on his own and hiding it all while excelling in an international spotlight- albeit by artificial means, all on his own.


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