I like to tie knots in the end of the ropes when I rap, but I worry about forgetting to untie the knots before I start pulling the rope(s) down. Are there any safety concerns in tying both ends of the rope(s) into one knot when using an ATC device?

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Rap rope knots Submitted By: Shawn C on Feb 19, 2013

Generally this will cause twists in the rope.

I've never had a problem with the rope twisting while using an ATC. If I use an 8, twists become an issue but I typically tie my ends together and it works for me.

Please tell your friends.

Yer gonna die Submitted By: Shawn C on Feb 19, 2013

more chance of getting yr rope stuck

worried about forgetting to untie the knots ? ... when yr at the next rap anchor ... tie the end of the rope to the station with a quick overhand ... this also prevents you from losing the ends on diagonal raps

After years of climbing at places like Red Rock, I've decided that the best way for me to handle this is to tie an overhand-on-a-bight on each strand and clip them to my gear loops. One on each side.
This way I've got knots in the end of my rope to safegaurd my rappel, and the wind can not blow my ends around the corner and snag them on whatever crack/chickenhead/bush that may be waiting. Throwing the rope is fairly easy since your only throwing half the distance. As you rappel the rest of the rope usual settles itself out. Plus since it is clipped to you, if you (or your partner) forget to untie the knot, there is no way you can pull it out of reach.
I've been rigging like this for several years now and at this point I do this on almost every multi-pitch rappel, after a bit of practice I've found it to be overall a much smoother process then attempting to throw the whole rope and dealing with the inherent tangles. Using a tube style belay device (atc, reverso ...)I've never had an issue with the ropes twisting.

You can also (instead of changing your usual way) take some time daily while driving, laying in bed, at work, walking, whenever to visualize your rappel technique. Just like muscle memory you can alter your thoughts and go from effort to effortless. Visualize yourself always remembering to untie the ends and it'll be embedded by your next rapp experience, IF you put effort into it.

Regardless of whether or not you tie a knot in the ends, you should force yourself to watch the far end of your rope as it passes by you while you're pulling. It's a super easy habit that will save you some serious hassle one day.

Can you draw a picture of me ascending [my] rope after my partner didn't untie the knot from the end before he pulled it after a rap? We had over half the rope down so I was able to lead (on the free end) a good deal of the climb, but it was above my pay-grade, so there was aiding and rope ascension involved.

Also, I think Rambo was there and maybe Chuck Norris was doing a king-fu kick nearby.

[I was unable to re-climb the route that I had initially led because it was around a corner and we would have run out of rope].

I will present my partner with the image next time I see him in order to shame him.

First, you calmly identified the problem at hand.

First you calmly identified the problem at hand Submitted By: Shawn C on Feb 20, 2013

Jimmy McMillan Submitted By: Shawn C on Feb 20, 2013

Slash and unicorns Submitted By: Shawn C on Feb 20, 2013

Stallone belaying himself. Submitted By: Shawn C on Feb 20, 2013

Chuck Norris Submitted By: Shawn C on Feb 20, 2013

hahah awesome diagrams...very informative

AHAHAHAHAHAHAH AWSOMENESS! shawn u made my morning... thnx man!

if you're gonna tie, quit being a baby and tie each end separate like everyone else. That sloth pic is awesome!!! I love it! for multipitch, i often prefer not tying because I worry the rope is more likely to get caught and that will cause more problems.

I used to always tie both ends of the rope together for multiple rappels. The only bad thing about this method is having to manage both rope ends for the knot - you could flake the rope at the rap anchor while you thread it so you have both ends to tie together. I would always rig the rope for a rappel with the rope ends hanging, then pull them up, tie them together, and drop again - it was a bunch of wasted time and energy.

Nice work on the drawings, Shawn C. That is seriously the best thing I have ever seen on Mtn Proj. Also, I look forward to THE SHAMING, as I think I might know who it was.

Lower the first climber if the rap is slabby or windy. All the others rap as usual. If the first one gets stuck in the rap rings when you pull the rope, it means you forgot to untie them.

Great artwork, Shawn!! Big plus.
I tie my ends separately, BTW. Never used an ATC.
Cheers, & thanks for the laughs.