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Knot at the end of a rope for rappel
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By Shawn C
From San Francisco, CA
Feb 19, 2013
Summit of Weavers Needle in the Superstition Mount...
I like to tie knots in the end of the ropes when I rap, but I worry about forgetting to untie the knots before I start pulling the rope(s) down. Are there any safety concerns in tying both ends of the rope(s) into one knot when using an ATC device?

Check out my incredible artwork. PM me for all your MP forum post artwork needs.

Rap rope knots
Rap rope knots

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By redlude97
Feb 19, 2013
Generally this will cause twists in the rope.

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By Austin Baird
From SLC, Utah
Feb 19, 2013
Me scaring years off my mom's life
I've never had a problem with the rope twisting while using an ATC. If I use an 8, twists become an issue but I typically tie my ends together and it works for me.

Shawn C wrote:
PM me for all your MP forum post artwork needs.


Could I get a sloth telling me "YER GONNA DIE"?

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By Shawn C
From San Francisco, CA
Feb 19, 2013
Summit of Weavers Needle in the Superstition Mount...
Please tell your friends.

Yer gonna die
Yer gonna die

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By bearbreeder
Feb 19, 2013
more chance of getting yr rope stuck

worried about forgetting to untie the knots ? ... when yr at the next rap anchor ... tie the end of the rope to the station with a quick overhand ... this also prevents you from losing the ends on diagonal raps

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By Austin Baird
From SLC, Utah
Feb 19, 2013
Me scaring years off my mom's life
Shawn C wrote:
Please tell your friends.


I'm taking this and heading to my local tattoo parlor RIGHT NOW

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By BGardner
From Seattle, WA
Feb 19, 2013
After years of climbing at places like Red Rock, I've decided that the best way for me to handle this is to tie an overhand-on-a-bight on each strand and clip them to my gear loops. One on each side.
This way I've got knots in the end of my rope to safegaurd my rappel, and the wind can not blow my ends around the corner and snag them on whatever crack/chickenhead/bush that may be waiting. Throwing the rope is fairly easy since your only throwing half the distance. As you rappel the rest of the rope usual settles itself out. Plus since it is clipped to you, if you (or your partner) forget to untie the knot, there is no way you can pull it out of reach.
I've been rigging like this for several years now and at this point I do this on almost every multi-pitch rappel, after a bit of practice I've found it to be overall a much smoother process then attempting to throw the whole rope and dealing with the inherent tangles. Using a tube style belay device (atc, reverso ...)I've never had an issue with the ropes twisting.

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By Locker
From Yucca Valley, CA
Feb 19, 2013
...
...
...

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By The Stoned Master
Administrator
From Pennsylvania
Feb 19, 2013
Day Lily.
You can also (instead of changing your usual way) take some time daily while driving, laying in bed, at work, walking, whenever to visualize your rappel technique. Just like muscle memory you can alter your thoughts and go from effort to effortless. Visualize yourself always remembering to untie the ends and it'll be embedded by your next rapp experience, IF you put effort into it.

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By Marc H
From Lafayette, CO
Feb 19, 2013
The Cathedral Spires in RMNP, left to right: Stile...
Regardless of whether or not you tie a knot in the ends, you should force yourself to watch the far end of your rope as it passes by you while you're pulling. It's a super easy habit that will save you some serious hassle one day.

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By camhead
From Vandalia, Appalachia
Feb 19, 2013
You stay away from mah pig!
Shawn C wrote:
Please tell your friends. [image of cliff sloth]


Mega-like!

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By Brian Hudson
From Lenoir, NC
Feb 20, 2013
Valor Over Discretion (5.8), RRG
Shawn C wrote:
Please tell your friends.

AWESOME

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By John Marsella
From Berthoud, CO
Feb 20, 2013
breathing intensifies*
Can you draw a picture of me ascending [my] rope after my partner didn't untie the knot from the end before he pulled it after a rap? We had over half the rope down so I was able to lead (on the free end) a good deal of the climb, but it was above my pay-grade, so there was aiding and rope ascension involved.

Also, I think Rambo was there and maybe Chuck Norris was doing a king-fu kick nearby.

[I was unable to re-climb the route that I had initially led because it was around a corner and we would have run out of rope].

I will present my partner with the image next time I see him in order to shame him.

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By Shawn C
From San Francisco, CA
Feb 20, 2013
Summit of Weavers Needle in the Superstition Mount...
First, you calmly identified the problem at hand.

First you calmly identified the problem at hand
First you calmly identified the problem at hand




Then Jimmy McMillan showed up and was a pessimistic dickwad.

Jimmy McMillan
Jimmy McMillan




But Slash blasted a killer 80's hair ballad that made you think of unicorns.

Slash and unicorns
Slash and unicorns




Stallone arrived and belayed himself to retrieve the rope.

Stallone belaying himself.
Stallone belaying himself.




...and Chuck Norris kicked the shit out of your forgetful friend.

Chuck Norris
Chuck Norris

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By Ben Brotelho
From Albany, NY
Feb 20, 2013
Epic free solo with a pack on
hahah awesome diagrams...very informative

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By Morgan Patterson
Administrator
Feb 20, 2013
Stoked...
AHAHAHAHAHAHAH AWSOMENESS! shawn u made my morning... thnx man!

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By stanley 250
From scottsdale, az
Feb 20, 2013
me
if you're gonna tie, quit being a baby and tie each end separate like everyone else. That sloth pic is awesome!!! I love it! for multipitch, i often prefer not tying because I worry the rope is more likely to get caught and that will cause more problems.

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By Crag Dweller
From New York, NY
Feb 20, 2013
My navigator keeps me from getting lost
stanley 250 wrote:
...for multipitch, i often prefer not tying because I worry the rope is more likely to get caught and that will cause more problems.


So, in the scenario with the highest potential risk of rappelling off the ends, you prefer not to tie the ends?

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By John Ryan
From Poncha Springs, CO
Feb 20, 2013
No Name Crack, 5.10, Supercrack Buttress, Indian C...
I used to always tie both ends of the rope together for multiple rappels. The only bad thing about this method is having to manage both rope ends for the knot - you could flake the rope at the rap anchor while you thread it so you have both ends to tie together. I would always rig the rope for a rappel with the rope ends hanging, then pull them up, tie them together, and drop again - it was a bunch of wasted time and energy.

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By Baumer
From Boulder, CO
Feb 20, 2013
Easy Lieback
Nice work on the drawings, Shawn C. That is seriously the best thing I have ever seen on Mtn Proj. Also, I look forward to THE SHAMING, as I think I might know who it was.

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By Jake Jones
From Richmond, VA
Feb 20, 2013
Me and the offspring walking back to the car after...
John Marsella wrote:
Awesome Shawn, thanks! Let the shaming being. Also, in some cases, my partner uses a "saddle-bagging" technique for the rope for raps: one end of the rope is lap-coiled and hung from the harness by a sling on each side. During the rap, the rope feeds out from these coils and you can monitor the amount of rope left. This is also nice if you are worried about wind blowing the rope into a snag or if there are people below you (so you don't throw rope onto them from above).


I tried this once just for the hell of it on a slab rappel. I got tired of tossing the rope and of course the friction of the slab just leaving most of it in a pile 40 or so feet below me. Not really a big deal, you just have to stop and pick up the pile and toss it again.


I took both ropes, lap coiled them then fed them both into the same 24" sling. Worked great, and the rope fed out of the sling no problem. It takes a little more time to do it that way, but if you do it right, it definitely alleviates most of the problem of snagging, ropes blowing diagonally and getting hung, etc. So if you do end up with a tangle, at least it's on your person and not in the rock where you have to pull some shenanigans out of your ass to get it unhung. Eeeexcellent point John.

Oh, and Shawn's work made a little bit of pee come out involuntarily. Fine work.

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By Gunkiemike
Feb 20, 2013
Lower the first climber if the rap is slabby or windy. All the others rap as usual. If the first one gets stuck in the rap rings when you pull the rope, it means you forgot to untie them.

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By The Ex-Engineer
From UK
Feb 20, 2013
BGardner wrote:
After years of climbing at places like Red Rock, I've decided that the best way for me to handle this is to tie an overhand-on-a-bight on each strand and clip them to my gear loops. ...


It depends on the exact situation but this is an excellent method and I also use it loads.

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By doligo
Feb 20, 2013
Jose Cuervo Fruitcups dirtbag style
Shawn C wrote:
First, you calmly identified the problem at hand. Then Jimmy McMillan showed up and was a pessimistic dickwad. But Slash blasted a killer 80's hair ballad that made you think of unicorns. Stallone arrived and belayed himself to retrieve the rope. ...and Chuck Norris kicked the shit out of your forgetful friend.


LOL, the "Rent is too damn high" guy cameo was the best.

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By Kirk B.
From Boise, ID
Feb 20, 2013
belay slaving on some route I forgot the name of w...
Great artwork, Shawn!! Big plus.
I tie my ends separately, BTW. Never used an ATC.
Cheers, & thanks for the laughs.

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By stanley 250
From scottsdale, az
Feb 21, 2013
me
Crag Dweller wrote:
So, in the scenario with the highest potential risk of rappelling off the ends, you prefer not to tie the ends?


Nope - not anymore. I'm following BCGarners advice and clip each end to gear loop.

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