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Is it a send?
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By David Eisenstadt
From orlando,florida
May 31, 2009
Student Conservation Association, Merck Forest Cre...
Okay, I climbed my first 5.13 ever, I think. I climbed it top to bottom, clipper every clip and all that. But... near the easy beggining of the route, my foot brushed a hold, I asked if it was on and my belayer said no, through that situation I didn't weight it. I cut my feet off to change to a proper foot and continued to climb and send. I was really happy but its been bugging me, I keep thinking it wasn't a legal send. MP input?

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By David Eisenstadt
From orlando,florida
May 31, 2009
Student Conservation Association, Merck Forest Cre...
Arg I'm peeved :[

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By Daniel Trugman
From La Jolla, CA
May 31, 2009
Final steps up Blanca after a snowy traverse.  Pho...
Doesn't count if it's in the gym. ;-)

Seriously, if you didn't really use the hold, I'd count it. If you feel comfortable calling it a send, then call it a send.

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By David Eisenstadt
From orlando,florida
May 31, 2009
Student Conservation Association, Merck Forest Cre...
johnL wrote:
Yep. You might have just proved to yourself that you're capable of sending a 5.13 though. Or not. I don't know how your gym rates things.


They set the route, get climbers who have climbed as hard if not harder outside, and rate to see hard it is from top to bottom.

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By Brian Milhaupt
From Golden, CO
May 31, 2009
Pyramid
Just try it again without the hold in question. And give yourself an edge, like being better hydrated or mentally rehearsing the moves. Chin up, you can do it!

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By J. Fox
From Black Hawk, CO
May 31, 2009
Me too!
David Eisenstadt wrote:
I climbed my first 5.13 ever...I climbed it top to bottom...


It only counts if you climb it bottom to top! Sorry, do over. ;-)

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By Greg D
From Here
May 31, 2009
Out of the blue.  Photo by Mike W.
If you feel weird about it than you know the answer.

But, seriously. We're just rock climbing. Not curing cancer. Don't sweat it. Do it again if you are unsure.

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By Stiles
From the Mountains
May 31, 2009
Rough
Arno Ilgner would be sooooo disappointed with your query. Congrats on the high number, though. It is an impressive indicator.

A good rule of thumb: If there is any doubt, there is no doubt.

-----

Can a climber claim 5.13 having led one route in the gym? This sounds like a perversion of the sport. Although John Gill created a whole new sport called bouldering. Perhaps the climbing community has created another whole new sport worthy unto itself called gym climbing.

The problem here lies in continuity, though. Everyone who climbs a route outside adds to a consensus of the grade of difficulty. In a gym the artificial and short-lived route is typically set by a single person creating a close representation of the grade and naming it so.

I believe it ALL comes down to who you want to claim a 5.13 to, and why such claims matter.

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By Brigette
From Seattle, WA
May 31, 2009
At the anchors.
Did anyone else notice that this guy is *14 years old*? Way to climb, David!

I agree with Brian - try it again. No need to worry about this one send (or not). It's not a single 5.13 climb that makes you a 5.13 climber, it's being able to consistently climb at that level, inside and/or out.

Keep up the good work, and best of luck to you!

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By Aaron Martinuzzi
Jun 1, 2009
end of the day in the black canyon.
I was working a boulder problem the other day with my buddy and, more quickly than I expected, sent it. Problem was, it was over so quickly I couldn't tell if I sort of pushed off the ground during the first few crux moves or not. Moral of the story: I did the moves, but something didn't feel right until I repeated the problem and finished it with that good 'I sent it' feeling. However, if I was your belayer, I wouldn't hold it against you.

As far as gym climbing goes, my attitude has always been that it's practice. What I climb in the gym might be a good indication of what I'm capable on rock, but I wouldn't tell a potential partner I climb 5.12 because I did a couple in the gym. That said, your send is nevetheless impressive - congrats.

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By TBlom
Jun 1, 2009
This kid is 14, lives in the flattest rockless place in the country, and climbs way harder than me... Dude, you should move away from Florida when you get a chance, it might do you some good :)

P.S. why combine "legal" with climbing? (rules,rules,rules) The dab at the bottom probably didn't help you that much at the top!

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By Eli Helmuth
From Estes Park, CO
Jun 1, 2009
Eli on the FA of Grizzly (M9) at the Den.
Gym climbing doesn't count for anything, period.

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By David Eisenstadt
From orlando,florida
Jun 1, 2009
Student Conservation Association, Merck Forest Cre...
Eli Helmuth wrote:
Gym climbing doesn't count for anything, period.


:/

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By Shane Neal
From Colorado Springs, CO.
Jun 1, 2009
Thunder
Eli Helmuth wrote:
Gym climbing doesn't count for anything, period.


Why? Because you say so? From a long time old school climber, thats a weak statement. Maybe your old school ways have you blinded that time's have changed and man and technology made indoor climbing possible and part of our sport. People build careers off of it. It IS just another form of climbing, and no matter what you climb, IMHO, a climber is a climber.

We all know being on the sharp end on real rock is a whole other game- but surly a man w/ your experience cant use that to jusity writing off a young man's efforts? Or anyone's in a gym for that matter- join the 21st century bro. Plus, he lives in Florida. Open the mind man- it wont hurt, I promise.

Good job on the send David- seems legit to me, cept maybe in a comp- keep it up! Move to CO. ASAP when you turn 18. :)

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By Sam Lightner, Jr.
From Lander, WY
Jun 1, 2009
The Shield
Well done David. ITs a great accomplishment, especially for a 14 YEAR OLD. You should be proud.
Sam

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By Tony B
From Around Boulder, CO
Jun 1, 2009
Got Milk? How about forearm pump? Tony leads "...
Eli Helmuth wrote:
Gym climbing doesn't count for anything, period.


Good thing, because I've been climbing for as long as this kid has been alive, plus half again, and a year or two to spare...
And I can't get up the gym 13's, brushed hold with a foot or no.

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By Jon Ruland
From Tucson, AZ
Jun 1, 2009
sending Hard Day at the Orifice
kids these days with their rock gyms and their music.

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By darrell hodges
Jun 1, 2009
Did you do the sit start?

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By Shawn Mitchell
From Broomfield
Jun 1, 2009
Splitter Jams on the Israel/Palestine Security Wal...
Do mom and dad know about your composite plastics habit? And that you "accidentally" abused recommended usage? At least your conscious is bothering you.

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By Leveille
From Appleton, WI
Jun 1, 2009
as long as the ladies were down with it, its a send

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By Phoenix
From louisville, colorado
Jun 1, 2009
hiking 8-5-09 (Don't chase the rabbit!!!)
For real little bro, look in to CU Boulder for your collegiate candidate. You will love yourself for it, that is unless you think that there is more money in hard pro climbing than having say a masters degree..... Just don't let climbing get in the way of your education. I would like to be there to see the look on your face when you hit the Front Range coming from Fl. You would likely flip the f*#k out at first glance of the Rockies, I know I did!

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By Stiles
From the Mountains
Jun 1, 2009
Rough
Colorado State would be better (wink)

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By J. Albers
From Colorado
Jun 1, 2009
Bucky
Nice job David. Don't be peeved, be happy man!!! 5.13 is hard, inside or out.

To comment on what others have said, you should be happy about sending a 5.13 gym route because it is an accomplishment. Nonetheless, it is a different accomplishment than sending a 5.13 outside. I wouldn't be as harsh as Eli about it, but I do understand where he is coming from. I climb at a pretty consistent grade inside, but that gets knocked down a few grades outside, and thus for myself, I consider whatever I climb outside to be the measuring stick. This is just a personal thing though, and nobody else can tell you what your own value for any given climb, outside or inside, is worth. Is an ascent of the Nose worth any less if you french free a bunch of it? Nobody else can tell you that, its personal.

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By pfwein
Jun 1, 2009
Sounds a little bit like the story posted in one of the mags many years ago when Fred Nicole was doing a first ascent of a hard boulder problem in Yosemite and accidentally kicked his spotter. There is a view (which I generally agree with) than any contact with a spotter invalidates a send.
But old Fred-he called it good since in his view the kick didn't make the send. He said something like "I only climb for myself."
The Yos hot shots acted all butt hurt for awhile and held it against him--this was early in Fred's trips to the US and they didn't realize he was quite a ways ahead of the leading US boulderers of the time, and it was just another mid-grade tick of many for him. In retrospect, if Fred called it good, it was good. So David--you get it call it--unless you're in a competition with defined rules, in which case they govern.
Apologies if I messed up the story (and I'll edit this post if anyone corrects me)--this is based on my memory from reading the story, no first hand info.

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By Eli Helmuth
From Estes Park, CO
Jun 1, 2009
Eli on the FA of Grizzly (M9) at the Den.
I've learned well from my British wife how to 'take the piss' out of ya'll...can be fun sometimes.

As I often say about climbing, "It's all good as long as you're having fun and not hurting anything" (the Pachamama).

Still, pulling on plastic is kinda lame unless there are no other alternatives. Kinda like calling masturbation "having sex". Whatever works for ya!

Climb on, bro!

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By J. Albers
From Colorado
Jun 2, 2009
Bucky
Masturbating ain't sex, and pulling on plastic ain't sinking jams up in the Winds, nonetheless they're both fun.....

Calling plastic lame.....Eli, you have been living too close to heaven for too long. Move to [add midwestern state here] and we'll talk!!!

Cheers.

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