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Is A6+ even possible?
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Sep 9, 2009
Rock Climbing Photo: Left to right - me, Sam Adams, Thomas Huber, Alex ...
Wow - sixty posts on aid ratings? Don't you guys have anything more interesting to talk about?

Aid ratings just aren't one of these things you can quantify very well. One man's A4 is another man's A2. If you have the skill and experience and equipment, you can turn a hard A4 pitch into a reasonable exercise. If not, it can become a living nightmare. Examples on how to mitigate risk would include knowing how to replace crappy fixed or dead heads with your own new good ones, and knowing how to use hooks for pro that will actually stop you if you blow it. A huge rack of Screamers and Scream Aids will make a big difference, too.

I'm not trying to be a smart ass here, but you guys oughta go out and give some of these aid pitches a try. It's actually a lot of fun, and not too scary once you get the hang of it. Plus it's the only way you can reach the bitchin'est campsites.

As for Mr. Beyer, although I have never met him, I am more than a little pissed at his destruction of Wall of Early Morning Light on El Cap. When he climbed Martyr's Brigade, he destroyed a bunch of anchors and bolts on WOEML, which have yet to be fixed. The line is currently unclimbable.

You guys ought to read Richard Jensen's account of his and Mark Smith's second ascent of Beyer's Intifada, touted as "the hardest aid route on the planet". Here are some exerpts:

"I realized that, on the first pitch at least, Beyer had bypassed natural hook placements, and had used the drill instead to trench heads which weren't needed. We rated the pitch A4. Had he hooked everything that was available, instead of trenching, Beyer would have had an A5 ground-fall pitch. Instead, Beyer appeared to have 'brought the pitch down to his level'."

They found no A6 Death Anchors, and in fact the climbing wasn't even that hard. Have a read - good stuff!
"Pass the Pitons" Pete Zabrok
From Oakville, Ontario
Joined Dec 8, 2007
640 points
Oct 17, 2009
Rock Climbing Photo: mug shot
I just got off a new route in Zion. We did stacks of hard aid. Aid is dead. Not cool. Mostly a sport for dorks like me who can't free climb moonlight.
We talked about this topic up there as we are tasked with rating a bunch of difficult sandstone nailing. Ryan AKA "YO" said:
" The aid scale is kind of lame because it's overkill. It's either A1, A2+, or A4 because the scale is topped out at A5 and you are a blowhard if you use the 5." In our little world, the 4 means you will likely get hurt, or hurt bad if you blow it.

A6 or A6+ = BLOWHARD.

Unlike the open-ended free scales, the aid scale should not be opened up. You don't have to be Sharma or Yuji to do an A5, just a little nuts and very lucky, or unlucky to have actually found an A5 pitch. I've fallen on beaks, heads, and shitty old sticking out Bridwell rivets and had them all hold.

Show me an A5 pitch. I'll wager that none have yet been found in Zion. That is saying a lot for the hundreds of aid routes that have been done there. I'll bet only 1 or 2 have actually claimed A5 pitches. Flying Bryan, Burt and Ammon have done some crazy aid climbing there (stigmata, the arch on red arch...) I've not seen any A5 on their topos...

A6 (no anchor)--WHY? BLOWHARDS. These folks should be embarrased for thier blatant hot air.
Nate Brown
From Wilson, Wy
Joined Apr 27, 2008
787 points
Oct 18, 2009
Rock Climbing Photo: Flakey Pull Roof v5
Thank you for that link. I have been fascinated with hard Fisher Tower aid lines (not that I will ever actually try one,) and have always found Beyer intriguing. I think that his original "no holes deeper than 1/4 inch on the FA" is officially bunk.
Two things to Beyer's credit though:
1. Beyer had his own aid rating scale (see Desert Rock 4)so if he wants to call it A6, than it was Beyer A6.
2. Having spent a bit of time in the desert alone I can attest that your perceptions tend to get a bit warped.

My definition of A6- If you fall you and your partner die, along with everyone else who happens to be on the route. Your life insurance will also be revoked, and your bereaved will be audited by the IRS.
logan johnson
From West Copper, Co
Joined Mar 1, 2006
332 points
Feb 18, 2010
Rock Climbing Photo: Climber Drawing
ARRose wrote: "No, the plus is for killing another party"

rick d wrote: "there is no A6
Correct you are sir!

Perhaps A5+ is aiding without a rope?

There is something to be said for tradition and our sport has tradition steeped in folklore, honored by legend and perpetuated by drunken campfire rantings.

Let's not alter tradition to satisfy the egos of some new kids on the block.
Tom Hanson
Joined Jan 1, 2001
1,125 points
Feb 19, 2010
Rock Climbing Photo: Dan on Hurricane
I was under the impression that A6 was really just A5 where you failed, got resurrected ( after making your saving throw vs -1 Constitution....) and on your second attempt bit it again. Unfortunately at this point you have either run out of gold or the local cleric is pissed when he learns you are Chaotic Neutral and there is no third chance for you.... Dan G0D5H411
From Colorado Springs, CO
Joined Mar 22, 2006
2,014 points
Mar 12, 2011
Rock Climbing Photo: About to do a reachy static move to a sloper finge...
brooks8970 wrote:
Perhaps this is the most difficult aid climb ever, but it is not A6+. Why? There is no A6+. The system is capped because it is based on the the number of continuous body weight placements. Since most believe that there has never been an actual A6 climb, it doesnt make any sense to skip a grade. Props to these guys for putting up what looks to be a very hard route in the fishers, but IMO their claim takes away slightly from what should be a celebrated accomplishment.

Well said on this topic
Joined Jan 12, 2011
812 points
Dec 22, 2011
Rock Climbing Photo: me in NH
Darren in Vegas wrote:
Assuming this route is in the valley.... A5 - the leader dies in a fall A6 - the leader and belayer die in a fall A7 - Everyone watching in El Cap meadow dies (idea stolen from AG)


From Corvallis, OR
Joined Nov 22, 2011
31 points
Dec 22, 2011
Rock Climbing Photo: mawiage
dear ancient archives thread, this song goes out to you.

the Oracle
From Delphi
Joined May 19, 2011
30 points

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