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By aliebling
Mar 21, 2013

They are abusing the DMCA to try and block reviews they don't like.

arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/03/gopro-can-fall-from-plan>>>


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By David Sahalie
From on the road again
Mar 21, 2013

Don't buy GoGay because that third eye while you are being so rad makes you look like tool and nobody wants to sit through 10 minutes of shakey cam footage of you climbing 5.10+.


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By AnthonyM
Mar 21, 2013
Maroon Bells-Bell Cord Couloir

I understand that they pulled that shady move... and I agree...

But to David-Not everyone shoots hour long videos of themselves climbing a "shakey 5.10" and honestly I kinda agree with you. I don't want to sit through that crap. We use a Go-Pro on occasion to take pictures every 30-60 seconds on long alpine climbs. It not only takes some crazy pictures (like me and my buddy about to high five right as we topped out) but also eliminates the need to keep grabbing a cameral to snap a couple random shots. You would (or maybe you wouldn't be surprised) by the one or two people that think they're on video and decide to be assholes... As soon as we let them know we have it set to take pictures they usually respond with "oh that's kinda cool, didn't know they could do that." There are also other ways we use it too... Sometimes we stash it in the dirt fifty feet away and get some good time-lapses of the climbs.

Not everyone who has a Go-Pro is a tool.... and it's not always on video mode either...

However... I must say this new thing with people using their Go-Pro's in gyms is getting stupid... Why???? Why do they do that????

Cheers,

-A


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By JackWeaver
From Tucson, AZ
Mar 21, 2013

Wow, that really sucks. Definitely never getting a go pro for the reasons above as well as this shady business.


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By Matt N
From Santa Barbara, CA
Mar 21, 2013
OTL

Last snowboard trip I saw one guy with a GoPro on his shoulder AND his helmet, plus a GPS on the other shoulder - maybe his backpack housed extra batteries or a laptop for instant master--er gratification. He must shred. Another tool with two was spotted that day but without the other extras.
You don't need to capture every moment of you shredding that blue run; from TWO different angles. WTF people.


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By Alex Washburne
Mar 21, 2013
I eat crack for breakfast.

There's a balance between capturing the moment... and living in it.


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By T Howes
From Bozeman, MT
Mar 22, 2013

Anthony Milano wrote:
I We use a Go-Pro on occasion to take pictures every 30-60 seconds on long alpine climbs.


I never thought I would want a go-pro, but this sounds cool.


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By Brendan Blanchard
From Strafford, NH
Mar 22, 2013
Obi Wan Ryobi - Darth Vader Crag, Rumney NH

Lets not forget the value of remembering the moment you forgot your ice tool technique, get hit by falling ice, then tumble hundreds of feet before being self-arrested by your ass. Priceless.


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By AnthonyM
Mar 22, 2013
Maroon Bells-Bell Cord Couloir

Brendan Blanchard wrote:
Lets not forget the value of remembering the moment you forgot your ice tool technique, get hit by falling ice, then tumble hundreds of feet before being self-arrested by your ass. Priceless.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Did he really get hit??? It looked to me like he tried to catch it and lost his balance. Personally, I duck or lean to avoid falling ice.

But hey some people like their ice axe leashes super long or not at all... Pretty sure no one ever told this guy that the point of a leash is for moments like those and to always make it no more than an arms length long...

Another note-We love taking pictures and I had gotten the Go-Pro as a gift... Setting the Go-Pro up for a picture every 30-60 seconds will mean a ton of pictures to look through but we normally end up with fifty or sixty great pictures that we would have never thought of taking. Do we make people sit through a slide show??? Shit No. Do we post them on some blog that no one cares about? Shit No. I will frame a couple and use the rest for future trips/drunkin nights with my climbing partners. No harm to anyone. Plus no one has to sit through stuff they don't want to. But hey that's me... I also have leashes on my mountaineering axes and know how to self arrest.


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By Dave Cummings
From Grand Junction, CO
Mar 22, 2013
me on my redpoint

The GoPro is great for skiing and biking, anything with speed. For climbing it is great for bouldering on a pole above or on a tripod for multiple takes on different locations. If you want to put the GoPro on your helmet for climbing you will only get short sections of usable material because climbing footage on a GoPro is boring. The GoPro is awesome but it has its place. Happy shooting out there.


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By Dankasaurus
From Lyons, CO
Mar 22, 2013

Buy this thing! It will help the government spy on you. Somehow.

- Reichsmarshall Napolitano and Co.

PS- Fuck the GoPro when you can Google Glass it!


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By AnthonyM
Mar 22, 2013
Maroon Bells-Bell Cord Couloir

Reginald McChufferton wrote:
Do you typically carry more than one axe at a time and can you self arrest with both at the same time? Or are you just another gumby spewing shit on the Internet about things they know nothing about?


Normally just one (sorry), once in a awhile (if I have no idea what conditions are) I will carry a pair of ice tools as well (if I use them-both will be leashed so I am not screwed if I drop one). If you have to self arrest one will work but you have to make sure the other one doesn't sever an artery. I have only had to use that technique once and it's scary not knowing where the other ice axe is but its better than risking losing one. I should mention that this was on a 100 foot alpine-type traverse from the second pitch to the third pitch. Once in a great while, I will carry one ice tool and one mountaineering axe in which case the ice tool is used only for super steep sections. Both will be leashed to me and both can be used to self arrest. It just depends upon the movement prior to the fall and how you fall as to which one you grab for... Normally self arrests shouldn't take more than fifteen feet and you need to know them backwards and forwards before attempting a reasonable alpine climb...

When I do short ice climbs I always have one leashed and one unleashed because of preference as well as it is how I learned to ice climb five years ago. Ice climbing is fun, you learn new stuff every season. I am by no means an expert but there are some things I operate by-checking knots, making sure you double back, cleaning and maintenance of gear, as well as making sure your leashes aren't too long and you can self-arrest in your sleep before crap hits the fan.

Sorry for the confusion.


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By David Sahalie
From on the road again
Mar 22, 2013

quality Go-Homo tool footage:



I like how his first thought after falling is to give the Pro a thumbs up and then he blames his shoes. classic.


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By amarius
Mar 22, 2013

BTW, GoPro 4 is in the works - the samples are already making rounds


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By Ryan Williams
Administrator
From London (sort of)
Mar 22, 2013
El Chorro

David Sahalie wrote:
I like how his first thought after falling is to give the Pro a thumbs up and then he blames his shoes. classic.


He wasn't giving the thumbs up to his camera, he was giving the thumbs up to his belayer.

And I couldn't hear what he said about his shoes, but I wouldn't just assume that he was "blaming" them. If you've ever fallen on a slab like that, you know that you will probably have to resole or retire your shoes. Could he have been making a comment about that? Honest question because I couldn't hear.

In any case, he did a pretty good job of keeping himself upright for most of the fall - it could have been worse.

Glad he was wearing a GoPro - great perspective. Sometimes it is worth recording hours of useless footage, just to get a few seconds of action. That, in fact, is the whole point of the helmet cam. Push record, go about your business, and see if you end up w/ anything good.

Regarding GoPro's "shady" practices - they are a business. Business is competitive. Capitalism requires that you do anything and everything possible to get ahead of the competition. It's not a perfect system, but without competition, something as advanced as the GoPro would not be available for just a few hundred dollars.


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By David Sahalie
From on the road again
Mar 22, 2013

Ryan Williams wrote:
If you've ever fallen on a slab like that, you know that you will probably have to resole or retire your shoes. .


I have, but instead of blaming the shoes, I used better footwork the next time and didn't freak out like this dude. Oh, and I didn't wimper like a little girl, or at least there isn't proof on Youtube of it.


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By Steve86
Mar 22, 2013

Regardless of your thoughts on POV action cameras (of any brand), I wouldn't let this one action by one gopro "brand manager" taint your view of an entire company. It certainly doesn't look like this guy is a a lawyer or even understands what the DMCA is or how it works. He probably just found a takedown letter on the web and changed to reflect gopro. It seems like a pretty isolated instance where a single employee went rogue.


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By Morgan Patterson
Administrator
Mar 22, 2013
Stoked...

quality Go-Homo tool footage:

>

Thumbs up was clearly to his partner to say he's okay... you can see him in the corner of the shot.


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By Cale Hoopes
From Sammamish, WA
Mar 22, 2013
Profile Icon

I had an interesting GoPro experience. I got the front-helmet mount.

Lately on climbing trips, I've been remiss in taking pictures. What I liked about having a go pro on is that I simply forgot about taking pictures. I knew it was capturing something cool and I could really focus on the climbing. I liked that! :)

The footage is sort of jarring, but it can be fun to watch once you get over it. I don't know how much stock I put into these trademark complaints.

My biggest problem with the Hero 3 is that it's ALMOST a good product. They need to fix battery life and support larger SD cards IMHO. Battery life of 1.25 hrs for a camera that is supposed to take a great amount of footage seems like an embarrassment for $400. Fix that and they might finally have "arrived".


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By Mike McKinnon
From Golden, CO
Mar 22, 2013
Bunny pancake

quality Go-Homo tool footage:

>

I like how he wimpers like a little bitch before he falls.


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By TheBirdman
From Eldorado Springs, Colorado
Mar 22, 2013

I'll say this as.a GoPro owner. Everytime I think about using it, I don't want to. I look like a moron, it's cumbersome and can somewhat detract from the experience, and is just something else I have to deal with when I'm skiing, climbing, or whatever. That being said, anytime I do use it, I'm always happy I did and wish I had taken the time to get more footage.

For all the haters, it's not necessarily just for people looking to boost their Facebook or YouTube cred. I like to make videos of my experiences, just like people keep journals or take photos. I don't know why there is so much hatred toward them. Do people use them to record their epic 5.8 ascent? Sure. That's not getting in rock and ice anytime soon but who cares? How does it any way affect what you are doing?


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By Boissal
From Small Lake, UT
Mar 22, 2013

Mike McKinnon wrote:
I like how he wimpers like a little bitch before he falls.

Any whimpering followed by what looks to be at least a 50' slab whipper is more than justified. If he had a go pro down his pants I imagine you'd see a graphic representation of that fear...


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By aliebling
Mar 22, 2013

I'd agree with you except they basically doubled down and made excuses rather than even admitting they screwed up and in fact broke the law. DMCA abuse by corporations is a huge issue and should not be taken lightly, even if it was enacted by one wayward misinformed employee. hopefully, they see a serious lawsuit over this and the guy (and anyone who backed his actions) gets fired.

If this seems excessive, realize that, if the website had not removed its (perfectly legal!) content, the whole website would have been taken down. Think about if running this website was your business. your whole livelihood (and that of your employees) gone in an instant because a corporation abused the DMCA and broke the law. They break the law, you don't, and it's you who pay the price.

Anyway, if you are in the market for a camera of this sort (for use while biking or skydiving - not climbing, right?), consider something from contour (contour.com/) or others. Vote for honest companies. It really does matter.

Steve86 wrote:
Regardless of your thoughts on POV action cameras (of any brand), I wouldn't let this one action by one gopro "brand manager" taint your view of an entire company. It certainly doesn't look like this guy is a a lawyer or even understands what the DMCA is or how it works. He probably just found a takedown letter on the web and changed to reflect gopro. It seems like a pretty isolated instance where a single employee went rogue.


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By David Sahalie
From on the road again
Mar 22, 2013

TheBirdman wrote:
Sure. That's not getting in rock and ice anytime soon but who cares? How does it any way affect what you are doing?



Boulderers wearing beanies and no shirt while yelling like Ondra on v4s don't affect me either, but they are tools nonetheless.


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By Steve86
Mar 22, 2013

aliebling wrote:
I'd agree with you except they basically doubled down and made excuses rather than even admitting they screwed up and in fact broke the law. DMCA abuse by corporations is a huge issue and should not be taken lightly, even if it was enacted by one wayward misinformed employee. hopefully, they see a serious lawsuit over this and the guy (and anyone who backed his actions) gets fired. If this seems excessive, realize that, if the website had not removed its (perfectly legal!) content, the whole website would have been taken down. Think about if running this website was your business. your whole livelihood (and that of your employees) gone in an instant because a corporation abused the DMCA and broke the law. They break the law, you don't, and it's you who pay the price. Anyway, if you are in the market for a camera of this sort (for use while biking or skydiving - not climbing, right?), consider something from contour (contour.com/) or others. Vote for honest companies. It really does matter.



That's not necessarily accurate. Sending a scary letter doesn't give gopro the means to literally take down a website sua sponte. If they actually attempted to proceed the process is a lot more complicated. All of the internet isn't like youtube where a real world content provider reporting a dmca violation (regardless of its legitimacy) results in a automatic takedown.

The letter that gopro sent is poorly written at best and somewhat legally nonsensical which is what lead me to my earlier hypothesis that this is just an over zealous employee that will likely get fired. I don't disagree that it's BS but I suppose I just don't see drudge sirens when I come across something like this as I see it frequently in my line of work.


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By aliebling
Mar 22, 2013

Except the takedown was sent to the ISP and the takedown would be enforced by them and not purely dependent upon the website itself. Obviously, the website could (and should and probably has) make/made a counter notification, but that takes 10-14 days to process.

So best case for the website, their time has been wasted and their perfectly lawful content is blocked for a few weeks. Then again, they've probably also gotten far more traffic and attention than they otherwise would, so that's a plus, but not a win most takedown victims benefit from.

I've seen a few equally nonsensical takedown notices from companies (and I agree, I'm 99% sure they were all done without consulting legal), but that doesn't change the potentially deleterious effects for the target website. Ignorance is no excuse for abusing the law.

Anyway, not a bad time to consider products from other camera makers. All other things being equal, I prefer to give my money to companies that don't employ idiots..or at least don't stand behind them when they find out their employee is an idiot.

P.S. You're right, it will certainly depend on the ISPs policies and implementation, but an innocent website shouldn't be at the mercy of the good nature of their ISP (who by nature seem to err on the side of caution, trying to cover their own legal backsides).

Steve86 wrote:
The letter that gopro sent is poorly written at best and somewhat legally nonsensical which is what lead me to my earlier hypothesis that this is just an over zealous employee that will likely get fired. I don't disagree that it's BS but I suppose I just don't see drudge sirens when I come across something like this as I see it frequently in my line of work.


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