How to fix a spinner

When one comes across a bolt that has a loose hanger he/she attempts to tighten it; however, what does one do when the bolt itself begins to turn instead of tightening up? Does one just leave it loose? Rebolt it? Or is there a way to fix this without rebolting?

My dad always told me that when the bolt just keeps spinning that something has failed in the expansion bolt or the rock has failed but either way it will need to be rebolted

Come on Robert. You know the answer to this question. The old school guys would slip a wired cable of a nut under the hanger, clip a long sling, hitch up their panties and plan not to fall.

In the Fixed Hardware forum Greeger Man has info on how to extract various styles of bolts and studs.

Hahahha lol, best advice ever!

If the bolt is spinning in the hole the expansion sleeve isn't working. Bolt is junk for an outward pull, but probably pretty alright in shear. Either way should be pulled and replaced.

I always use shaped charges to remove spinners, but for some reason land managers don't like explosives.

I can think of three reasons for a spinner. (Maybe the more experienced can think of more.)

1) the easy one: the nut/bolt is loose, and is able to be tightened. Yay! Fix it by tightening it to the proper torque. Hopefully the nut just came loose, and the installer didn't just forget to tighten it... I think I see this more commonly on wedge anchors with a nut, rather than 5-piece type anchors where one tightens the entire shaft of the bolt.

2) I don't know how common this is, but it seems like I've seen some bolts where the hole was not drilled deep enough, and thus it is impossible to tighten the hangar and bolt fully. This is pretty lame on the installer's part, and they should have fixed it. Bolt needs replaced. Maybe I'm crazy on this one, because I don't know why you'd accept this, but I swear is see it.

3) the more common alternative: the cone or wedge or whatever expansion device of the bolt is not working, so the bolt spins in it's hole. Bolt needs replaced.

All three of these, even the "easy" one, require a bit of specialist knowledge. Scenarios 2 and 3 are especially annoying to fix, as removing bolts is non-trivial, and drilling new holes is lame.

In any event, clip the bolt. It may not be sound at all, but it may hold a fall, and even if it doesn't, it may slow you down. Just understand that it is suspect. (As mentioned above, even totally bunk bolts can hold a surprisingly large downward force. But it's the outward forces that will get ya...)

Yeah, if the bolt shaft keeps turning then something is wrong.
Sometimes a 5-piece bolt will not tighten down because the cone is rotating along with the bolt as you wrench on it. Lightly funking on it can sometimes work as the bolt moves ~1/16" out of the hole and hopefully finds a tighter location for the cone. Although that scenario might sound sketchy - remember that once the cone is held in place enough for you to tighten down the bolt to the specified torque, the holding power comes from the fit of the expanded sleeve and not the fit of the cone against the sides of the hole.
If the threads are mangled and you can't achieve proper torque, you don't have a good bolt.
If a stud bolt won't tighten down - that seems to me to be a worse situation. If the collar is not fixed to the walls of the hole then that is no longer a mechanical wedge bolt. It's just a nail with an unknown axial pullout strength. Luckily most falls are mostly shearing force, but clipping in direct and leaning out from the wall could result in a nasty surprise.
If you install bolts you should (IMHO) bring along a spinner tool to have the possibility of removing bad bolts without chopping.

Most climbers carry chisels and small angle pitons for this exact purpose. When you find a spinner, remove it with the chisel and hammer in a nice angle into that hole. Problem solved.

Not all spinners are bad bolts. It really depends on the type of bolt and the quality of the rock. With plated Rawl/Powers 5-piece bolts the cone and the bolt can become rusted together. This makes it very hard to loosen or tighten the bolt. That doesn't make it bad as the cone is expanded in the hole and the desired strength should be there.

What most likely occurred is that the nut gets hit at the same time the stud is (ie, wedge anchors), and it damages the threads to the extent that when the bolter wrenches it, the whole thing will turn. It is an otherwise good placement however. This tends to occur on wedge anchors which do not have a dog point on the end. People will run the nut out to the end to protect the threads, and the reverse occurs when the hammer driving it in whangs down on it less than square on. Occasionally, just clipping your daisy to the hanger and weighting it while carefully turning the wrench, will set the bolt perfectly. Sometimes grabbing the exposed threads with a pair of vice grips while turning the nut will also work. I have not tried the funkness device idea yet, but I would expect that it should work if the anchor or rock is not damaged. If you could set it, you would know if the nut had damaged the threads. Sometimes you can back the nut off which also tells you that the anchor has damaged threads when the new nuts goes on most of the way and then the unit starts spinning.

Sometimes, you MIGHT, maybe pull very slightly down on the hanger while tightening the nut just a bit..It can work but usually the bolt is bad.

Billcoe, John Strand, Gregger Man: great info, thanks!

Billcoe wrote: What most likely occurred is that the nut gets hit at the same time the stud is (ie, wedge anchors), and it damages the threads to the extent that when the bolter wrenches it, the whole thing will turn. It is an otherwise good placement however. This tends to occur on wedge anchors which do not have a dog point on the end. People will run the nut out to the end to protect the threads, and the reverse occurs when the hammer driving it in whangs down on it less than square on. Occasionally, just clipping your daisy to the hanger and weighting it while carefully turning the wrench, will set the bolt perfectly. Sometimes grabbing the exposed threads with a pair of vice grips while turning the nut will also work. I have not tried the funkness device idea yet, but I would expect that it should work if the anchor or rock is not damaged. If you could set it, you would know if the nut had damaged the threads. Sometimes you can back the nut off which also tells you that the anchor has damaged threads when the new nuts goes on most of the way and then the unit starts spinning.

Billcoe. Thanks for the post.  This is EXACTLY what was happening to me….just didn’t know why my bolt wouldn’t tighten down.  Now I do.