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how much does endurance in one angle affect another angle?

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5.samadhi Süñyātá · · asheville · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 40

if you train on 45 degree walls and routes will this positively affect your endurance on 20 degree walls? obviously the hold size will be different given that you are at your limit on each angle. the 20 degree wall will be more fingers for you compared to the 45 degree wall. but how would the endurance relate to each other?

I am finding that they are cross training but they do not relate exactly perfect way to each other. I have good endurance on pretty steep stuff since I've been climbing that primarily but my endurance on vertical to slightly over hanging stuff sucks. so must you train every angle in order to have endurance in every angle?

Alexander Blum · · Livermore, CA · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 143

I don't think it's an endurance issue, it's an endurance vs. power endurance vs. technique problem. Power endurance and core strength are going to be more important than pure endurance on 45deg walls, while technique, finger strength and pure endurance will be more important on gently overhanging routes. One of my first thoughts is that a gently overhanging wall may have smaller holds for the grade than a very steep one, taxing your grip in a different manner.

The endurance capacity of the muscles in your forearms will be the same no matter the angle, it will just be drained more or less quickly based on a myriad of other variables. So yes, you probably do have a to train all the "styles" of climbing you want to excel at in order to have good endurance for them. This is a good question, I look forward to hearing more opinions.

Kerwin Loukusa · · PNW · Joined Aug 2013 · Points: 135

Yes and No,

From a physiological perspective, if you are training properly to induce growth in aerobic function (capillary density, up regulation of aerobic enzymes) then it should not matter which angle you are training on.

But, the hold shapes and sizes for both hands and feet will be drastically different on a overhanging vs. vertical wall for equivalent difficulty climbs. The technique of climbing efficiently will also be very different on very overhanging vs. vertical routes. The different hold shapes and sizes will cause you to use your forearms in a different way to hold the holds in an isometric manner. Strength is dependent on joint angle in isometric holds, so if you are very strong at gripping the holds on a overhanging wall, but poor at gripping the holds on a vertical wall, it will cause the muscle to work at a different rate which will cause you to be at a different place in the aerobic/anaerobic spectrum.

My guess is that technique is probably the largest factor here though, if you have the ability (strength/weight ratio) and technique to hang out on overhanging routes you are obviously quite strong. It would probably serve you well to get the body used to climbing near vertical routes more often. You may find that as you climb more on vertical walls that you trust your feet more and began using your hands to simply maintain contact with the wall.

kenr · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 16,608

For lots of other athletic actions, endurance has a significant mental component. The feeling of fatigue is partly a construction of your unconscious mind and neuro-muscular control centers. Your unconscious mind normally does not allow you to take endurance to the limit of what your muscle-tendon system is physically capable of (because going near the limit could cause damage).

So one of the "other" results of specific endurance training is to make your unconscious mind "comfortable" with that action in specific context -- so after a few sessions your mind allows you to take it closer to the muscle-tendon system's actual limit.

Perhaps if you do several sessions of less-than-vertical endurance training, you might see rapid gains as your unconscious mind + neuro-muscular control centers "get comfortable" with endurance performance in that specific context. And you might then find that the physical endurance gains from the overhanging context then get significantly carried over quickly to the less-than-vertical context.

I think I remember a place in Dave MacLeod's "9 out of 10" where he says that gains from training context often take a month (or two?) to get transferred to the outdoor-climbing context.

In a non-climbing grip strength book I have, the author reports a very striking example of how grip strength can be very context-dependent (even if performed at the same angle).

Ken

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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