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How do you decide if a runout is worth the risk?

Original Post
Short Beta · · Troy, MI · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 45

I'm a relatively new sport climber. Have only been clipping bolts for 6 months. I lead 10d-11a in the gym, and 10a/b outdoors.
Still battling with my "lead head", I have encountered quite a few runouts that have stopped me in my tracks. One was in Red Rocks at the Black Corridor, where minor spacing above a ledge spooked me out and I lowered down. The moves were not hard, but I had a nagging gut feeling that it just wasn't worth the risk. However, moments later I breezed through bolts 10-15 feet apart over an enormous slab jutting out into the middle of the route. The fall would have been very bad. But I just kept going and sent it.
So I'm curious...What is your threshold for runouts? Is there a line where the risk outweighs the accomplishment of finishing the route? How do you know where that line is for you? And when you've found yourself shaking at the top of a runout, with your last anchor dangling far below you, how do you reclaim control of your nerves?

doug rouse · · Denver, CO. · Joined Apr 2008 · Points: 660

For some, the action is the juice! With that being said, there is never a good, all around go to reason to climb runout terrain. The variable is your desire to complete said runout, weighed against all the other variables that are common...ledge fall potential, around an arete, poor gear, rain, bird crap, darkness, a position that is very difficult to retreat from, making up the only option ( bad in any case ). It should be interesting if someone has a reason I can use!!!

Adam Brink · · trying to get to Sardinia · Joined Mar 2001 · Points: 560

You should do the runout when it's fun and you're excited to do it. Otherwise follow or toprope it.

Jcastleberry · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 192

When in doubt run it out.

nbrown · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 7,718

Two possibilities in my mind:

A. If you can't decide, it ain't worth it.

B. Or, sometimes it's the only option left.

Ryan Watts · · Bishop, CA · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 25

What route are you talking about specifically?

I've climbed most of the routes there up to 10d or so and I don't remember any of them having "runouts". Bolts outside may be spaced a bit more than at the gym but I'm guessing you already know this.

There are a few routes there where stick clipping the first bolt would be prudent so if that's what you're talking about then yeah...stick clip it.

In general the idea of sport climbing is that you should be able to focus on the movement and risk should be minimized to the extent possible. If there is a legitimate "run out" on a sport route meaning hard moves far enough above a bolt that a fall would result in serious injury, usually I just skip it. That's not what sport climbing is about for me.

On trad routes, obviously it's a different story as runouts are part of the game sometimes. General rule of thumb if a route is rated "R" I only do it if I know I won't fall off the run out section. Different people have different risk tolerances in that area so that's more of a personal choice I guess.

Short Beta · · Troy, MI · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 45

Well, I did mean to say that the routes I mentioned were more "spaced out" than runout. Sorry if I used the wrong term. The route with the slab in the middle was "Lewd, Crude, and Misconstrued", I would not call it runout but the spacing was much greater than I'm used to. Super easy climb, but safe to say it was a bad fall at one or two spots. And for the other route with the minor spacing above the ledge, I don't quite remember the name :/ .

Mark E Dixon · · Possunt, nec posse videntur · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 974

I usually just call my mom and ask her.
Had to get an otter body case for the iPhone though, so I could clip it to my harness.
Couldn't deal with bluetooth headphones, they spoil the wilderness experience for everybody.

Tom Caldwell · · Clemson, S.C. · Joined Jun 2009 · Points: 3,623

Confidence through experience. Knowing what you regularly onsite is a good starting point. If the R section is several grades below your onsite, then it is just a matter of staying focused and calm. Try to climb instinctively and your emotions will be less in control. It also helps to build confidence by traveling to different locations where the normal safety margins vary. Headpointing is a great tactic to build confidence on more serious routes.

Meme Guy · · Land of Runout Slab · Joined Sep 2013 · Points: 325
marty funkhouser · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 20
Russ Keane · · Salt Lake · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 392

If you started on the route at all, you really should finish it. What are you going to do, lower off your last draw? Come down and let someone else go up and retrieve your stuff?

On lead, once you commit to the climb, there's no turning back.

Kind of a universal rule of thumb.

doligo · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2008 · Points: 264
Russ Keane wrote:If you started on the route at all, you really should finish it. What are you going to do, lower off your last draw? Come down and let someone else go up and retrieve your stuff?
Only rookies leave a draw.

Russ Keane wrote: On lead, once you commit to the climb, there's no turning back. Kind of a universal rule of thumb.
Says who? There is no shame in backing off, especially a sport route. Live (or be in one piece) to shred another day.
Dave Swink · · Boulder, Co · Joined Jun 2007 · Points: 285
Russ Keane wrote:If you started on the route at all, you really should finish it. On lead, once you commit to the climb, there's no turning back.
Damn straight. Why go dragging judgement into it?
kboofis · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2011 · Points: 20
Russ Keane wrote:If you started on the route at all, you really should finish it. What are you going to do, lower off your last draw? Come down and let someone else go up and retrieve your stuff? On lead, once you commit to the climb, there's no turning back. Kind of a universal rule of thumb.
lol
Russ Keane · · Salt Lake · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 392

doligo- You're not familiar with the concept that a lead climber finishes the climb? Don't get on it if you can't complete it.

Obviously safety comes first, and if need be you lower down off bail biners. I get that. But it's not ideal and it's bad form.

butters · · Mammoth Lakes, Ca · Joined Aug 2013 · Points: 200

think about why you started climbing and why you continue to enjoy it. What motivates you? is it a love-based motivation that drives you to climb?

Jon H · · PC, UT · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 118

This question is one that will continue to pop up in every climber's career, no matter how strong or talented.

There's a certain 12a (which isn't THAT hard in the grand scheme) in Eldo that noted professional 5.14 climbers chose to toprope first, pre-place the gear, and finally lead it. To them, it wasn't worth the risk.

I'm a 5.10-5.11 trad climber. I can usually redpoint 12a on bolts pretty quickly. But still, I've bailed on 5.9 sport when I just wasn't feeling it and I've gone for it at my absolute limit on 11c trad. Every situation is different, even repeating the same route on a different day will feel different. The choice is always up to you. Internet hardmen will tell you from the comfort of their keyboards that they always run it out. But you're the one who will have to be on crutches for 8 weeks if you blow it.

There are 2 main questions to answer: (A) Can I do this physically? and (B) Can I keep it together mentally?

The answer to (A) is usually "yes." The answer to (B) is a different story. Most failure (i.e. falling) at climbing is mental. You don't fall because you gun it for a hold and miss, you fall when you just let go because you don't have the courage to actually commit and go for the next hold. I suffer from this as much (if not more) than anyone. You'll have to deal with the same fear on runouts. This is all a long-winded way of saying that you need to get your mental game up to par.

At the end of the day though, I'm still a giant pussy and climb according to this: "There are old climbers and there are bold climbers, but there are very few old, bold climbers. Personally, I'd rather be an old climber."

doligo · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2008 · Points: 264
Russ Keane wrote:doligo- You're not familiar with the concept that a lead climber finishes the climb? Don't get on it if you can't complete it.
It is sport climbing, unless you have a party of top ropers or you want to put a rope up to work it, no one expects you to go all the way up if you don't have to. If anything, I'd rather you bail from it and let someone else climb it. Do you expect everyone who gets on a climb with permadraws to finish it?

To the OP, unfortunately we are at the mercy of FAs. You never know what was going on through their minds the day they put up the climb. Maybe they were short on time/money for more hardware, maybe they are 6'5" apes, maybe they were having a good day that day and didn't pay attention to intermediate cruxes, maybe key holds broke (especially if equipping preceded route cleaning - happens a lot, some developers do minimal cleaning and let traffic clean their route). If there is a perceived risk of hitting a ledge, ask your belayer if they think you'd hit a ledge if you blow it and even if they say no, don't be ashamed to back off.
Matt N · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 415
Russ Keane wrote: On lead, once you commit to the climb, there's no turning back.
Ha. Haha. That's MP gold right there.

For the OP, it really depends on the route as sometimes its expected (beta), sometimes its a surprise (wandery slab, miss a bolt, etc). Its part of leading outside (and especially trad).
Short Beta · · Troy, MI · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 45

@Russ, I'm actually a 5 foot tall woman! Being a man might be tricky.
And I think the whole "confidence through experience" applies here. In time I think one can better gauge whether or not they are fit to tackle dangerous parts of the route.
I also climb with people who would never force me into finishing a route if I felt sketched out by a runout. I would rather have someone go up and retrieve my gear than to risk serious injury by throwing myself at the first runout i see despite my lack of experience. There's no ego here. I want to push myself, not kill myself.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Sport Climbing
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