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How do you ascend double ropes?
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By Cruxic
From Corvallis, OR
Sep 19, 2012
Monkey Face - Smith Rock OR
Let's say I'm rappelling on double ropes into the unknown. How do I ascend back up if I need to? (Assume I have the standard aid gear on me: 2 ascenders, aiders, etc).

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By Jeremy Riesberg
From Boulder, CO
Sep 19, 2012
Palisaid, SD.
Ascend the rope you're not going to be pulling.

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By NickinCO
From colorado
Sep 19, 2012
after the hard stuff, into cruiser hands.
prusiks around both works too

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By Brent Butler
From Boulder, CO
Sep 19, 2012
profile pic.
use an atc guide, reverso or another plaquette device to rappel. They can easily be switched into "guide" mode mid rappel which will function as an ascender. Then throw on a foot prussik and you have your ascending mechanism.

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By Rick Blair
From Denver
Sep 19, 2012
This is a novel auto blocking belay device.  I thi...
Brent Butler wrote:
use an atc guide, reverso or another plaquette device to rappel. They can easily be switched into "guide" mode mid rappel which will function as an ascender. Then throw on a foot prussik and you have your ascending mechanism.

This only works if you are rappeling on the toothed high friction side of the device.

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By chris7
From San Diego, CA
Sep 19, 2012
Belaying
A prussik around both ropes works. As for ascending the rope you aren't going to pull, that will work but use caution. Check out the petzl website on how to use a grigri on one strand for a double rope rappel to see the setup. If you just rely on the knot not slipping through the rings or links you are taking chance.

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By Kenan
Sep 19, 2012
Shelf Rd
Brent Butler wrote:
use an atc guide, reverso or another plaquette device to rappel. They can easily be switched into "guide" mode mid rappel which will function as an ascender. Then throw on a foot prussik and you have your ascending mechanism.


+1

Eli shows it here with 1 rope, but it can easily be done with 2 ropes (with a prussik around both ropes as Brent mentioned, versus the Tibloc shown in the video):
climbinglife.com/rope-rescue-s...

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By Sure-man
From Boone, NC/ S.F.
Sep 19, 2012
On Las Aguajas with TW0 summit in the background
"use an atc guide, reverso or another plaquette device to rappel. They can easily be switched into "guide" mode mid rappel which will function as an ascender"

How do you mean?

I would put a prussik around the two strands above the atc with a foot sling and switch weighting the atc, then prussik....etc.

Is this what you are referring to as "guide" mode, or is there another sweet way to use the atc-guide for ascending that I am un-aware of! Thanks.

-Brett

EDIT: I just watched the video on the post before mine,,, got it!!!

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By Jon Lachelt
From Fort Collins, CO
Sep 19, 2012
Kenan wrote:
+1 Eli shows it here with 1 rope, but it can easily be done with 2 ropes (with a prussik around both ropes as Brent mentioned, versus the Tibloc shown in the video): climbinglife.com/rope-rescue-s...


Thanks for posting the link to this video. I've used an ATC Guide for a while now and love it, but just learned something new.

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By 20 kN
Administrator
From Hawaii
Sep 19, 2012
There are a number of options, the easiest being prussiks. Do not use ascenders on half or twin ropes, they are too thin! Ascending a single 8 or 7mm rope with a toothed ascender is very risky to say the least.

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By randy88fj62
Sep 19, 2012
Thunderbolt Peak in the Palisades
The easiest answer has been stated above: 1 prusik around both with a foot loop on top and your ATC Guide, Petzl Reverso, etc rigged in autoblock mode.

IF... your rappel device is the regular atc tube and not the guide then you can use the prusik as the top one and a garda hitch (AKA carabiner clutch) as the bottom one. A carabiner clutch is rigged with two biners and you should look it up as a picture is worth a thousand words. The carabiner clutch is the old school progress capture device used for big wall hauling before wall haulers and traxions.

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By Cruxic
From Corvallis, OR
Sep 20, 2012
Monkey Face - Smith Rock OR
Thanks for the ideas everybody. To summarize what I'm hearing:

Ascending the single strand you're not going to pull is fine as long as you trust that the knot cannot possibly get pulled through or you have closed the system as recommended by Petzl when rappelling double ropes with a Grigri.

The other option is to attach a prussik to both strands with a foot loop and use your ATC-Guide or Reverso in auto-blocking mode (or a garda-hitch).

Would there be any reason not to use an ascender on each strand to substitute for the prussik? Just slide them up in unison.

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By chris7
From San Diego, CA
Sep 20, 2012
Belaying
Cruxic wrote:
Would there be any reason not to use an ascender on each strand to substitute for the prussik? Just slide them up in unison.


According to physics this would work but you would need 4 ascenders then because that would mean a pair for each attachment which in this case includes a set for each. Unless you used a pair of ascenders for one set and the prussik around both ropes for the other. I am sure someone has tried it but I can't imagine using this at all. It sounds sketchy and confusing. The other thing to remember is that simplicity is almost always better. If your seriously ascending ropes up a wall, you need to be ready to transition to a descend method as well.

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By chris7
From San Diego, CA
Sep 20, 2012
Belaying
Cruxic wrote:
Thanks for the ideas everybody. To summarize what I'm hearing: Ascending the single strand you're not going to pull is fine as long as you trust that the knot cannot possibly get pulled through or you have closed the system as recommended by Petzl when rappelling double ropes with a Grigri.


Since you said "or" I am not sure if you mean that either is an option but I would always use a closed system when rapping on one rope tied to another. Relying on a knot holding your weight against the rings is taking a significant and easily avoided risk. I don't know where but there is a story about someone who did that and after hearing a pop fell a few hundred feet to the ground.

I believe this incident was because he was swinging around a lot, but sometimes this is needed. Rap anchors aren't always where you expect them. Sometimes you need to reascend a rope. Adding a knot and a carabiner is worth it when rapping on one strand

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By randy88fj62
Sep 20, 2012
Thunderbolt Peak in the Palisades
For single rope rappels look up Reepschnur:

rockandice.com/articles/how-to...

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By Vaughne
Sep 20, 2012
Cruxic wrote:
Would there be any reason not to use an ascender on each strand to substitute for the prussik? Just slide them up in unison.


chris7 wrote:
According to physics this would work but you would need 4 ascenders...

No. If you were using the ATC guide mode method, you could use a pair of ascenders in unison above the ATC guide instead of a prussik. You're probably still better off just using the prussik though.

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By Cruxic
From Corvallis, OR
Sep 20, 2012
Monkey Face - Smith Rock OR
Vaughne wrote:
No. If you were using the ATC guide mode method, you could use a pair of ascenders in unison above the ATC guide instead of a prussik. You're probably still better off just using the prussik though.


Yes, this is what I had in mind - not 4 ascenders. However, I'll take your advice and plan on using a prussik instead.

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By Ima Fred Knot
From Victoria, Seychelles
Sep 20, 2012
Self protrait
I just hand-over-hand it

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By ParkerKempf
From atlanta, GA
Sep 20, 2012
sweet belay on El Cap Spire, Salathe Wall El Capit...
i have had to do this before and i had ascenders on me, i just put both my jugs on the non-pulling side of the rope and my cinch as a backup on the other strand so if the knot did pull through i had a backup.

however the autoblock idea would work really well too

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By Medic741
From Pittsford, New York
Sep 20, 2012
When I was a bum at Frey
If you use the guide as an ascender also know how to get out of 'guide' mode if you have to descend again mid route while hanging (unable to unweighted rope) just sayin

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By chris7
From San Diego, CA
Sep 21, 2012
Belaying
Vaughne wrote:
No. If you were using the ATC guide mode method, you could use a pair of ascenders in unison above the ATC guide instead of a prussik. You're probably still better off just using the prussik though.

I said exactly that if you would have read my entire post

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By Matt N
From Santa Barbara, CA
Sep 21, 2012
OTL
Brett Sherman wrote:
I would put a prussik around the two strands above the atc with a foot sling and switch weighting the atc, then prussik....etc.


Anyone else actually done this? I had to once for a bit over 150'. The weight of pulling two 10ish ropes through the device was the most workout of that entire climbing trip. Worked simply and seemed safe. I planned on practicing the technique before needing it, but never did. Back up knots are a good idea also and help with some rope weight.

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By NorCalNomad
From San Francisco
Sep 21, 2012
youtube.com/watch?feature=play...

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By Cruxic
From Corvallis, OR
Sep 21, 2012
Monkey Face - Smith Rock OR
ParkerKempf wrote:
i have had to do this before and i had ascenders on me, i just put both my jugs on the non-pulling side of the rope and my cinch as a backup on the other strand so if the knot did pull through i had a backup.


Brilliant! This sounds like it would minimize ascending effort and required forethought.

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By Mark Hudon
Sep 21, 2012
On the North America Wall in 1977.
ParkerKempf wrote:
i have had to do this before and i had ascenders on me, i just put both my jugs on the non-pulling side of the rope and my cinch as a backup on the other strand so if the knot did pull through i had a backup. however the autoblock idea would work really well too



Yeah, that would be easy, fast and safe.

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By Irish-Jane
From Ireland, sometimes
Sep 22, 2012
Terradets, Spain.
To veer off the original question sightly, any tips for the best way to get the piggy off of you in a scenario like that?

I was pretty worried about this kind of thing when I rapped the Prow, spent a long evening trying to work out what to do if I missed an anchor. Thankfully didn't have to practice it.

My guess was to tie a bight in the end of both ropes, clip the piggy to them, somehow wrestle it off of me, then prusik back to the anchor. Once up there set up a haul on the non pulling rope, get pig back up, then have a cigarette and a cry before trying again.

I think this would have worked, possibly having to set up some kind of mini-haul bullshit to get the pig off my belay loop, can't quite visualise how that would work (mini-trax on the non pulling rope?) but seems like the kind of thing you'd figure out if you had to.

Any tips on a smoother and better way of doing this?

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