How do I narrow the sport-trad gap?
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My background is sport, mostly on limestone. Now that I am in the NYC, I want to transition to trad climbing (the only stuff accessible to me here). I am only comfortable leading 5.8/5.9 at the Gunks. In other words, I am scared shitless. Recently, I redpointed a well-protected 5.12 with the thought that it would "liberate" me from my fear. Did not help. Maybe falling on gear would help, but I don't trust my gear enough. Are there any tricks? |
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I'm in much the same boat, trad climbing at Devil's Lake in WI. I'm approaching this by climbing more trad. Just LOTS of trad. My logic is, the more you place good gear, the faster you get at placing good gear. Then it's a matter of time before I find myself in over my head and take a good whipper. Confidence bolsters after a few whips as it does learning sport. |
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grab a copy and read Rock Warriors Way if you haven't already. That and practice taking progressively larger falls on gear in a safe environment. ive noticed that if you are 100% focused on the climbing there leaves little to no room to think about falling. especially on routes at or near my limit. anything short of 100% focus on climbing will result in a fall. |
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Go do a clean aid climb; having to place all that gear and hang on it gives you a better sense of how it works and that builds some trust in the gear. Bounce test some marginal placements with a backup piece just below. Aid also gives you some exposure to how gear shifts when weighted. |
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A question to the OP: have you tried french-freeing the climb you RP-d or you just walked around to set a top rope? If you haven't put it up ground-up, go do that and do more. If you're not familiar with the concept, it's just like going bolt to bolt in sport climbing, but with gear instead of bolts. Weigh each piece and bounce test it as you go. I know some people may say body weight is not the same as a lead fall, but when you are hanging on a piece of gear 20-30 feet off the ground as a belayer feeds you slack to clip the next piece, you really want that piece of gear you are clipped to to be bomber. |
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Agree with Erik, just climb lots and lots of trad. Place as much gear as you can and clean as much gear from more competent climbers as you can. I have also heard Rock Warriors Way is helpful. |
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Just climb and enjoy being challenged by 5.9. That's hard enough to get you away from the worst of the crowds at the gunks and you don't have to do any of that silly training that everybody seems obsessed with. |
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Set up a top-rope on a trad route. |
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Just work your way up through trad like you did sport, imagine you didn't start on 5.12 sport routes, trad is a totally different style and mind set of climbing, have to start learning from the ground up. Start on routes that you do feel comfortable on and work your way up from there, other people only care about the number behind the 5 if you do |
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Falling on your gear absolutely helps. My first serious trad fall was on a climb above my limit with a high crux. Be a wimp and place four or five bomber pieces below the crux, and fire it. Then you'll whip, the high piece will hold, and you'll trust your gear way more. You'll start protecting cruxes with fewer pieces, whip more, and realize gear works. It really does. |
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Thanks all! So, as a summary: |
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Yeah, get more gear, especially cams. I saw your other thread about the Gunks rack - get more SLCDs, easier to fire when climbing is hard. Don't bother with tricams - they're not very useful unless climbing is super easy and you have your two hands free. Mock leading on top rope is not very helpful IMO, so is climbing well below your limit. Some people climb well below their limit their entire lives and place shitty gear, they don't know they place shitty gear because they never fall. |
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Like all not so young climbers, I learned trad since that''s all there was. I marvel at the disconnect between what people can climb when clipping bolts and what they can when placing gear. Not judging mind you. Still, here's what I think will help. |
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I think Fat Dad's got the best advice here, but maybe that's a generational thing since I'm an old fart too. |
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If the route is set up this way, it was helpful for me starting out. Climb a "mixed" route - one that is sport bolted, but takes pro - and clip a draw, then place a piece just above it. The bolt gives the backup, but you're still climbing trad. |
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I had this same problem in reverse. After years of climbing nothing but trad and talking shit about sport, I was consistently climbing a grade harder trad than sport. |
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Thanks again all! So far I love climbing at the Gunks. I am slowly working my way through the "to do" list. The package - the rock, the exposure, the views are awesome. |
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SXL wrote:(c) fall on gearI don't think anyone recommended that (not that I recall) or, if they did, I don't think that's good advice for someone who's admits that they're new to placing gear. I think the suggestion was to get better at placing gear so if you do fall on it (and you will), you're good. |
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i would definitely recommend taking some falls onto the gear. When you can look down past your feet, see a cam, and tell yourself its as good as a bolt (and kind of believe it), you'll start climbing closer to your limit. Yes read espresso lessons or rock warrior's way to understand true danger vs. perceived danger.... knowing that it's all dangerous anyway. |
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"Adopt 'the leader must not fall' attitude." Is this a thread on 'how to plateau as a crusty old trad dad?" Cuz if so, this advice is fan-freakin'-tastic. Make sure you know your gear is generally good, and then climb like it's gonna hold. If you don't trust it, do all the stuff people tell you to do -aid stuff on TR, monkey around at the base testing placements, build lots of anchors etc- thereby learning to trust that the stuff works, and then climb as if you think the stuff is gonna work. You're probably going to have to whip on it. Dangerous, irresponsible advice I know, but that's how the human mind works. Repeat the scary thing until it is no longer scary. Ignoring it, wishing it away ...this doesn't work so good. You know that feeling of cruxing, praying, increasingly gripped until you finally lob off and nothing happens, you're just hanging on the end of the rope awash in a tremendous sense of relief? It's like that. So just do it. [insert the usual disclaimer re: knowing when falling is a legitimately bad idea, and not falling then] |
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Fat Dad wrote: I don't think anyone recommended that (not that I recall) or, if they did, I don't think that's good advice for someone who's admits that they're new to placing gear. I think the suggestion was to get better at placing gear so if you do fall on it (and you will), you're good.How do I work a route if I can't fall? I think if the route is well protected, the gear well placed, I should be ok falling on it. I will not take victory whippers, but if the route is hard enough, I might fall. PS. placing gear quickly is another action point |