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how do I get strong again?

Original Post
Marek Sapkovski · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 65

I am trying to get back in shape to do harder routes. Since everyone was so eager to help the other older guy, I'll ask for help too. Not really hoping to do anything crazy hard, just to redpoint 5.12d/7c bolted routes and 5.12a/7b+ "safe" trad. Here are the inputs:

-- I took three years off from climbing because of a serious health problem and only started climbing again last April when I moved to the US.

-- Right now I am comfortably can redpoint up to 7a+/7b as long as it's technique-oriented sustained climbing. Same goes for bouldering - technical faces/cracks or slabs I can do up to V5.

-- Anything that has a sloper or a dyno (or both) - forget it. My bouldering grade goes down to like V1. No matter how much I work on these at the gym, i am not seeing improvements

-- My weakness is typical for older climbers (I am 42), I lack dynamic power and contact strength. That appears to be the limiting factor. Once the moves get powerful or dynamic, I fail.

Current training program:

-- tried my old block-based endurance/power/PE training cycle and don't seem to see any improvements

-- currently experimenting with a high/low intensity program. I do high-impact recruitment/hypertrophy training a couple days via outdoor bouldering or trying to lead really hard indoor routes (so I fail after a few moves) and then do two-three days of ARC via outdoor boulder traversing or indoor easy leading.

-- I am afraid of hangboarding or a campusing, feel that I might injure myself. That might be the crux of the problem.

SM Ryan · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 1,090

You said you want to trad 12a / 7bplus. I thought 12a is equivalent to 7a+. Would you clarify what your goal is?

Also where is your home crag and what climbs do you want to do? It is easier to structure training when the type of climb is defined. For example I train very differently for projects in Maple canyon than I do for the Hell Wall in American Fork.

lucander · · Stone Ridge, NY · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 260

Get back on your regimen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OlA1xjI0Wk

reboot · · . · Joined Jul 2006 · Points: 125
Marek Sapkovski wrote:Since everyone was so eager to help the other older guy, I'll ask for help too... I am afraid of hangboarding or a campusing, feel that I might injure myself.
Well if you notice most people who replied to the other "older" guy don't climb at the level you are at or where you want to be... I don't have any advise on how to come back from a serious illness, but it sounds like you know what you need to do, but is looking for some confirmation. I avoided crimpy stuff after a finger injury, but in retrospect, it would've been better had I trained finger strength in a controlled environment. I think hangboard, and even campus, is actually a really safe training apparatus. You can injury yourself by overtraining, but if you are observant, there will be warning signs. Making a hard move to an unknown hold is much more dangerous.

Despite what people say, especially in your case, building a stronger base of upper body & core strength would be beneficial. It'll help you deal with a larger training volume & prevent injury. As far as your training regiment, I'm no expert on it. I believe the larger the amount of quality training volume your body can take, the faster you'll improve. Whether that means fewer long sessions or more short sessions, you'll need to experiment yourself. I try to take a long view of improvement, others like to track their performance session by session. Do whatever works for you.

Edit to add:
My primary training partner is older than you and there are others in the group over 50. And if there's one take away thing, it is if you embrace your weakness, you'll improve much faster. I was terrible at slopers & pinches last year, so I decided to spend some time over the winter (hangboard & sloper problems). While they are not my forte, it's not a glaring weakness anymore.
Marek Sapkovski · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 65
SMR wrote:You said you want to trad 12a / 7bplus. I thought 12a is equivalent to 7a+. Would you clarify what your goal is? Also where is your home crag and what climbs do you want to do? It is easier to structure training when the type of climb is defined. For example I train very differently for projects in Maple canyon than I do for the Hell Wall in American Fork.
The "home" crag is across the pond, I don't get to go there often enough to project anything. Here it's the Gunks and doing 7a+ plus on gear would be plenty for me. I don't have a "proper" trad experience, so I've been mainly bouldering, but I found a few awesome lines that I am really psyched to project. I am trying to train Gunks-specific strength, which does not really suit my style that much.
Marek Sapkovski · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 65
reboot wrote: My primary training partner is older than you and there are others in the group over 50. And if there's one take away thing, it is if you embrace your weakness, you'll improve much faster. I was terrible at slopers & pinches last year, so I decided to spend some time over the winter (hangboard & sloper problems). While they are not my forte, it's not a glaring weakness anymore.
Makes sense and I do try to hit my weak spots more. Though lately I've been feeling as one big weak spot.

One unpleasant issue that keeps coming up is that I am now afraid of falling - even small scratches don't heal well. I am trying to fight it off by doing all of my indoor climbing on lead instead of bouldering and taking as many falls as I can.
Rob Gordon · · Hollywood, CA · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 115
Marek Sapkovski wrote: Makes sense and I do try to hit my weak spots more. Though lately I've been feeling as one big weak spot. One unpleasant issue that keeps coming up is that I am now afraid of falling - even small scratches don't heal well. I am trying to fight it off by doing all of my indoor climbing on lead instead of bouldering and taking as many falls as I can.
Sounds to me like you might actually need to boulder more and not just lead. Gonna be hard to pull 12d if you're bouldering V1 I would reckon. I don't sport climb hardly at all, and never have at that grade really, but in my experience, top end strength requires serious training and effort while endurance is fairly easy to come by if you just put in the mileage. Bouldering is also good for power endurance...

And when you get strong again I would imagine your fear of falling will subside some. I'm always most scared when I don't have faith in my arms on problems and routes where I can't put all my weight on my feet.

Did you gain weight while ill? Im at my heaviest, and it certainly hinders me in much the same way you describe.
Rob Gordon · · Hollywood, CA · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 115

Reread your post and now wonder if diet might be an issue. If you are training and not making gains, maybe some specific nutrition or even supplements would kickstart your recovery.

Maybe your body needs more time to recover these days... Or less. Who knows. Just some thoughts.

gf9318 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2013 · Points: 0

The Andersons (rockclimberstrainingmanual.com) argue that fingerboarding and more controlled training techniques decrease the chance of injury by limiting variables. Check out their site for some ideas on starting a program.

chuffnugget · · Bolder, CO · Joined Sep 2011 · Points: 0

If you wanna do 12d, you need to do at least 4 x v4-5 in less than say 5-6 minutes.

Marek Sapkovski · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 65
David Sahalie wrote:If you wanna do 12d, you need to do at least 4 x v4-5 in less than say 5-6 minutes.
There are plenty of 8a routes out there that don't have a single move harder then V3. But I do agree, I need power - as I said, technical V5s I seem to do fairly easily, while put me on a compression or a dyno V3 and I suck.
Will S · · Joshua Tree · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 1,061

Two suggestions.

Creatine.
Get over your aversion to strength and power training. Use a conservative limited volume approach to hangboard and campusing, start with comically low vol and add no more than 10% vol on successive wkouts. Two days off between, eight workouts then switch focus

Marek Sapkovski · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 65
Will S wrote:Two suggestions. Creatine. Get over your aversion to strength and power training. Use a conservative limited volume approach to hangboard and campusing, start with comically low vol and add no more than 10% vol on successive wkouts. Two days off between, eight workouts then switch focus
Yup, probably the only way. Yeah, actually what Monomaniac saying that hangboard and campusing being a controlled environment makes a lot of sense. I might introduce a session of each one into my week instead of bouldering.
Jon Zucco · · Denver, CO · Joined Aug 2008 · Points: 245

Could you find a way to keep bouldering in your training cycle and do hangboard and/or campus board training in addition to that? I've found that hard bouldering regularly has been really beneficial for me.

Marek Sapkovski · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 65
Ben25 wrote:Climb more
Yup, helmet/bumper sticker. That's been my way of training most of the time. I try to climb at least 4 days a week and thinking of making it 6-5 with active recovery days on the rock. However, I gain technique and endurance fairly well and suck in terms of power/strength - so I might need to invest a little time into campusing or hang-boarding.
Mark E Dixon · · Possunt, nec posse videntur · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 974

How about working with a climbing trainer? Sounds like you can afford it and I'll bet there are some good ones in NYC.

Marek Sapkovski · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 65
Mark E Dixon wrote:How about working with a climbing trainer? Sounds like you can afford it and I'll bet there are some good ones in NYC.
I have thought about it and assuming reasonable cost money is not an issue (*). You would be surprised how hard it is to find one in NYC, though. The guys that are advertised as climbing trainers at my gym are all talented climbers and great guys, but don't seem to know any more about coaching/training process then I do. If you (or anyone here) know someone good around NYC, I'd love an introduction.

  • Given my health prognosis, I don't really have to worry about saving for retirement anyway
Bill Wa · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 20

If its an auto immune disease over training will rein havoc on your health. Just chill and let things happen.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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