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Homebrew Crampons, Good Idea or Bad Idea?

Original Post
DannyUncanny · · Vancouver · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 100

I'm trying to get a lightweight crampon setup for the Bugaboos this August. It seems like the choices were $60 for instep crampons (which may be next to useless according to some people) or $150 for aluminum crampons until I came across this idea: cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/450729/

Just take the front half of any old pair of crampons and strap it to your trail shoes. Lightweight and cheap.

I adapted it a bit to work with my BD Sabertooths and an extra long length of shoelace, but since it's summer there's no way to test it out. Anyone have any insights or suggests/problems to offer up?


Yarp · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2011 · Points: 0

Those shoelaces are gonna wear out real quick especially the way you've wrapped them around the teeth. Use webbing just like suggested on CC and it'll be baller.

Bang Nhan · · Charlottesville, VA · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 35
Yarp wrote:Those shoelaces are gonna wear out real quick especially the way you've wrapped them around the teeth. Use webbing just like suggested on CC and it'll be baller.
You can pass the lace through some kind of plastic or metal tubes for the area where it contact the crampons
David Appelhans · · Broomfield, CO · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 410

Are you going to relace you boots each time you put them on? I'd go with this type of setup, but I'd refine the attachment strap setup. I think Yarp is right on this one, those laces are going to wear out fast. You could test them by walking around in the grass and see how loose and sloppy they get.

Yarp · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2011 · Points: 0
Bang wrote: You can pass the lace through some kind of plastic or metal tubes for the area where it contact the crampons
Or you can just use webbing and not have to dick around with plastic tubing. I thought you just started climbing Bang? You actually do this or are you offering advice on something you've never heard of before? Based on some of the silly questions you've been asking the last few months I have a hard time believing that you have any personal experience with this method of using crampons.

In case you are wondering...yes, I've done this, with 1/2" webbing and it works. Half way up a 300 ft 45 degree snow slope is no time to find out that shoelaces and plastic tubing do not make a good crampon attachment.
Brendan Blanchard · · Boulder, CO · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 590
Yarp wrote: Or you can just use webbing and not have to dick around with plastic tubing. I thought you just started climbing Bang? You actually do this or are you offering advice on something you've never heard of before? Based on some of the silly questions you've been asking the last few months I have a hard time believing that you have any personal experience with this method of using crampons. In case you are wondering...yes, I've done this, with 1/2" webbing and it works. Half way up a 300 ft 45 degree snow slope is no time to find out that shoelaces and plastic tubing do not make a good crampon attachment.
Your first post was informative and encouraging...and surprisingly unlike you, but you fixed that in this post I guess.

Danny, I would test whatever you do quite extensively before committing to anything with them. Find grass as mentioned above, or a dirt hill...open field etc.
Cor · · Sandbagging since 1989 · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 1,445

Geez Yarp,

Go easy on Bang... You internet hardman!

Yarp · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2011 · Points: 0

Why are you guys busting my balls? Bang has been all over these boards asking a ton of questions that have raised quite a few eyebrows around here but now he's suggesting that I'm wrong in recommending that webbing is a better crampon attachment than shoestrings. Not sure what others opinion of that is but I don't think it's a good one and coming from someone who recently was asking ...
mountainproject.com/v/is-it…

mountainproject.com/v/do-yo…

mountainproject.com/v/wild-…

I would consider his advice on this subject at least a bit suspect.

In other words...if he directly contradicted the advice you gave wouldn't you point out that this advice is coming from someone who doesn't understand the basic fundamentals of rapelling, can't figure out if he should take the cap off an ice screw before he places it and doesn't know how to use an ascender?

I'm sure Bang is a really nice guy and I don't even mind some of the silly questions he asks. He's obviously into it and getting out there but I don't think that just because he's stoked means he should be spraying advice on subjects he obviously knows nothing about.

Of course he's not the only one on this site that is guilty of this.

Evan Sanders · · Westminster, CO · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 140
Yarp wrote:Why are you guys busting my balls? Bang has been all over these boards asking a ton of questions that have raised quite a few eyebrows around here but now he's suggesting that I'm wrong in recommending that webbing is a better crampon attachment than shoestrings. Not sure what others opinion of that is but I don't think it's a good one and coming from someone who recently was asking ... mountainproject.com/v/is-it… mountainproject.com/v/do-yo… mountainproject.com/v/wild-… I would consider his advice on this subject at least a bit suspect. In other words...if he directly contradicted the advice you gave wouldn't you point out that this advice is coming from someone who doesn't understand the basic fundamentals of rapelling, can't figure out if he should take the cap off an ice screw before he places it and doesn't know how to use an ascender? I'm sure Bang is a really nice guy and I don't even mind some of the silly questions he asks. He's obviously into it and getting out there but I don't think that just because he's stoked means he should be spraying advice on subjects he obviously knows nothing about. Of course he's not the only one on this site that is guilty of this.
+1

Bang, good on you for asking so many questions and trying to learn, really, some people won't even attempt to get help. But stick to asking questions until you get a little experience. Remember this, everyone at one point was a newbie, but not everyone was a noob.
Bang Nhan · · Charlottesville, VA · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 35
Yarp wrote: Or you can just use webbing and not have to dick around with plastic tubing. I thought you just started climbing Bang? You actually do this or are you offering advice on something you've never heard of before? Based on some of the silly questions you've been asking the last few months I have a hard time believing that you have any personal experience with this method of using crampons. In case you are wondering...yes, I've done this, with 1/2" webbing and it works. Half way up a 300 ft 45 degree snow slope is no time to find out that shoelaces and plastic tubing do not make a good crampon attachment.
Thanks Yarp for pointing out that my hypothesis may not be true since I have not run an experiment on it. But from the perspective of science and engineering, it's nothing wrong to give things a try! And since this is just another engineering problem on how to put the crampons on the normal boots right, I don't see there is any risk to give it a shot! Not that if it fails, it will be life threatening (assuming that the designer is checking his invention in a controlled environment).

And Yarp, true that every climber used to be a noobie, same for everything in life, so struggling on certain concept or technique is unavoidable for the majority in the climbing community when they first started(Except some exceptional individuals, but based on the way you response to others' post, I doubt that you are belong to this minority, just saying). So I have my right to ask silly questions as long as I figure things out at the end. It is better than not asking things, and then screw it up. Lol even Einstein asked some silly questions, but who cares!
Marc Reich · · Boulder, CO · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 20

I'd be concerned about the front shoe lace lash slipping side to side. Also definitely go webbing and try to use some sort of buckle so you can really cinch it down. Since there's no real heel attachment you'll want to figure out if that things gonna bend away from your boot sole or build up snow/ice there. Try them out over some mud and rocks if you dont have snow and ice. Be careful, the high spikes in front and nothing in back looks like it'll be easy to hyper-extend your knee.

Yarp · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2011 · Points: 0
Bang wrote: Thanks Yarp for pointing out that my hypothesis may not be true since I have not run an experiment on it. But from the perspective of science and engineering, it's nothing wrong to give things a try! And since this is just another engineering problem on how to put the crampons on the normal boots right, I don't see there is any risk to give it a shot! Not that if it fails, it will be life threatening (assuming that the designer is checking his invention in a controlled environment). And Yarp, true that every climber used to be a noobie, same for everything in life, so struggling on certain concept or technique is unavoidable for the majority in the climbing community when they first started(Except some exceptional individuals, but based on the way you response to others' post, I doubt that you are belong to this minority, just saying). So I have my right to ask silly questions as long as I figure things out at the end. It is better than not asking things, and then screw it up. Lol even Einstein asked some silly questions, but who cares!
I agree with most of that Bang. I wasn't saying you shouldn't ask questions. While there are no stupid questions (well maybe a couple) there are a million stupid answers for every question. No problem with anyone being a noob either but every where but the internet noobs are relegated to listening and learning. Not offering advice on things they know nothing about. If you think your idea is a good one then go out and try it. Let me know how that works out for ya.

As far as my ability to understand the basics of rigging and gear...don't pretend to know anything about me. Because you don't. I didn't struggle with the basic concepts of rapelling, ice screws and ascenders and I don't know many people who did. I'm also, not the person posting to message boards asking questions to which the answers are readily available if one would only do a modicum of research.

Keep climbing, keep learning, keep questioning, but please get some experience before you start offering words of wisdom.
Greg Twombly · · Conifer, CO · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 275

In graduate school (Univ of Calgary in the 80's) I used a pair of track spikes-running shoes with thread in spikes-for glacier crossings in the Bugs. It was a little insecure at higher angles like the top of the 3-4 Couloir above Moraine Lake, but for stuff like the Bugaboo-Snowpatch Col worked well and was much faster traveling than mountain boots and crampons. I wouldnt do it in the winter or on water ice, but for August September it worked really well

Bang Nhan · · Charlottesville, VA · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 35
Yarp wrote: As far as my ability to understand the basics of rigging and gear...don't pretend to know anything about me. Because you don't. I didn't struggle with the basic concepts of rapelling, ice screws and ascenders and I don't know many people who did. I'm also, not the person posting to message boards asking questions to which the answers are readily available if one would only do a modicum of research. Keep climbing, keep learning, keep questioning, but please get some experience before you start offering words of wisdom.
Ah! That's exactly what I will comment too (Sorry Danny for hijacking your post again), as you said "...don't pretend to know anything about me". About my questions, I guess I have phrased them in such way that give you impression I am asking silly questions or maybe you have misread my questions (I am sure there is some basic misunderstanding between us when communicating via posting on the forum). So yeah I'm cool with some of your comment Yarp, but please try to see in which way the question is coming from first before started criticizing it :) And some questions I am asking since I have not been able to locate a satisfying answer from books and materials I found (hence, people created forum, so you can discuss on those things!).

Back to Danny, as most people have pointed out that the shoelaces may be too weak to hold the crampons, some designing changes such as using stronger materials, such as thin webbing (not sure if it's too thick to thread through the shoelace holes), or accessory cord may worth a try. Would after passing the cord through the crampon spikes then back to the toe bail on the side then back to heel provide a stronger binding? Again this is MYO only.
DannyUncanny · · Vancouver · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 100

At some people's suggestions I tried it out on the grass today. It held together pretty well, a little bit flexy though it didn't come off or anything.

My main impression was that the spikes are way too long. If I can't get the crampon to sink all the way in, I end up standing on my toes with my heels off the ground, or if my heels touch, then my toes are pointing skyward. It would be fine in really soft conditions, but not fun to walk on anything hard.

Next I will try taking off the bail and strapping them instep style with webbing.

Rick Blair · · Denver · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 266

I'd like to see what you end up with, post up some pics when your done.

Bang Nhan · · Charlottesville, VA · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 35
Rick Blair wrote:I'd like to see what you end up with, post up some pics when your done.
+1
DannyUncanny · · Vancouver · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 100
Rick Blair wrote:I'd like to see what you end up with, post up some pics when your done.
This is what I came up with in the end using some old 1" webbing. 1/2" would be better probably. It just feels much easier to walk with the points at the midfoot. The reason I flipped the front points around backwards were just because it fit the shoe better that way.

first try

And after improving the strap setup it looked like this. I learned that it's important to have one point cinch all of the straps together at the same time to get everything tight.

tighter straps

Overall results were pretty good. I think I'm happy with it, even though the dog was unimpressed. Next time I'm at MEC, I am going to pick up some 1/2" webbing and D-rings to stitch onto the ends and make a buckle.
MattB · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2009 · Points: 55

Looks pretty great! Just twist up a couple biners, like a tourniquet to get it real snug... clip em together... tightening or loosening is super easy... and don't step on your rope

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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