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Helpful video for multi pitch
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By a.brown
Oct 23, 2012
v6


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By bevans
Oct 23, 2012

Good video covering the essentials. No disagreement here on the validity of any of the techniques used, just a few comments.

- making the tie in redundant by tying in a second time after the clove is not something I view as necessary. If anything I think it adds to the clutter at the anchor and increases the chances of tangles and/or confusion as things are swapped around. ymmv.

- looked like maybe 5mm cord for the cordolette. interesting choice given the other conservative techniques shown. maybe 5.5mm titan? nbd anyway...just interesting.

- they chose to not have the new leader clip a first piece at the anchor or some kind of directional prior to starting the new lead. again, nbd...but it seems like an interesting choice given the basic and conservative instruction intended.

good, clear, well explained video.


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By jmeizis
From Colorado Springs, CO
Oct 23, 2012
The Beginning of Mr. Clean (5.8) at the Barkeater Cliffs in Adirondack Park NY.

Yeah, that was a pretty decent video. Don't understand the "redundant" tie in or the lack of clipping the anchor as a first piece. Other than that seemed like a good video.


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By Bobby Flowers
From Tacoma, Wa
Oct 23, 2012
Breakfast of Champions

bevans, my thoughts exactly. Nice post.


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By Scott McMahon
From Boulder, CO
Oct 23, 2012
Bocan

jmeizis wrote:
Don't understand the lack of clipping the anchor as a first piece.


Clipping the first piece as part of the anchor isn't a given. If I've got a bomber belay and the leader might not get a solid piece right away, I'll clip them into the anchor. If they can get a nice cam in right off the belay then I wouldn't risk the extra load on the anchor.

Here's a quick search on the debate.

www.neclimbs.com/SMF_2/index.php/topic,2346.0.html

books.google.com/books?id=IXqk_0N1HgcC&pg=PA183&lpg=PA183&dq>>>

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/rec.climb>>>


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By John D
Oct 23, 2012

I agree, I only clove hitch myself to the anchor, I've never felt the need to back that up.

I rarely clip a piece of the anchor though, the only time I do is when I think I might fall before I can get a piece in, but I'd say maybe 1 in a 100 pitches I clip a piece of the anchor and even then I usually have my partner unclip it once I get a piece in.

I thought the choice of a figure 8 on a bight to tie the second in was interesting. I usually use a clove for it's adjust-ability, but to each his own.


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By Scott McMahon
From Boulder, CO
Oct 23, 2012
Bocan

I sometimes back up my clove with a runner, but not to actually "back it up". When the leader has built the belay and is bringing up the rope, I'll take off the clove so when it comes tight it's on the harness. Then I'll throw it into overdrive to get ready to break up the belay as fast as possible.

Really probably only saves a minute.


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By jmeizis
From Colorado Springs, CO
Oct 23, 2012
The Beginning of Mr. Clean (5.8) at the Barkeater Cliffs in Adirondack Park NY.

Scott, I agree on clipping the anchor not being a given but for an instructional video such as this I'd think they'd mention it or at least the importance of protecting the belay.


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By Scott M. McNamara
From Tucson, Arizona
Oct 23, 2012
One Way Sunset

Letís say the leader whips at about half way mark in the rope.

Let's say the leader takes a good fall and the belayer gets pulled up hard.

The two non-directional nuts get plucked as he gets pulled up.

He is left anchored and belaying off of the one presumably omni directional cam?


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By gary ohm
From Paso Robles
Oct 23, 2012

Well, I gotta say that was awesome!!
I'll leave the climbing nits to you all who are more experienced. I'm apparently a gumby in perpetuity....
What I can comment on is the videography. Here are the highlights as I observed them;

No freking wind in the background! No heavy breathing or beta spray or other distracting crap. No sophomoric shouting and no annoying (distracting) fades or subtitles. Sometimes that's part of the video, but in this case it worked way better without it.

Two climbers wearing different colors. Again, it takes one more potential question mark out of the mind of the observer. If it wasn't part of the original plan, it worked well as an accident.

The only sound was the narrator's voice. The guy has a great voice for it. Calm, very clear, and only speaking when it was necessary, and only saying what was necessary. Too many people try to fill silence with noise.

Great use of occasional "time lapse" when you really don't need to see the whole rope taken up.

The video title told you what it was going to cover, and it did. This was not a video that tried to include every notion ever made regarding climbing.


This was a huge leap forward in climbing videos. I have no idea who the Seattle Mountaineers are, but they really performed a service with this video. If they want to do another on anchor building to address all the notions brought up in previous posts, well, I'd watch it.


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By Mark V
Nov 13, 2012

When the first climber was bringing up the second climber, he had his belay device clipped through the shelf. I usually have it attached to the master point. Thoughts?


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By michaeltarne
Nov 13, 2012

Whatever puts it in a better position for belaying- it works fine either way.


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By Scott McMahon
From Boulder, CO
Nov 13, 2012
Bocan

Mark V wrote:
When the first climber was bringing up the second climber, he had his belay device clipped through the shelf. I usually have it attached to the master point. Thoughts?


I usually clip into the shelf. I think you'll find that both Long's and Luebben's anchor books both illustrate the shelf's usage.

Either way is fine, I do it to clean up the master point for the second or to use the master point as an autoblock.

But honestly I think either is fine, and each person has their own personal preferance or belief in what is best. I think it just depends on what works best for your belay.

Key to the shelf is making sure that you clip in correctly.


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By Jake Jones
From Richmond, VA
Nov 13, 2012
Me and the offspring walking back to the car after a day of cragging.

Mark V wrote:
When the first climber was bringing up the second climber, he had his belay device clipped through the shelf. I usually have it attached to the master point. Thoughts?


It does work either way. I usually anchor myself into the loops below the knot, and rig my belay device on the shelf. The reason for this is because I find the closer I can get my belay device to chest or head height, the more comfortable it is. Also, the closer your belay device is to you, the shorter your movements will be to take in slack as your second comes up. It becomes a matter of efficiency. If there's a little distance between you and your belay device- enough so that you can still reach it, but also far enough away that you can pull about three feet or so out at a time, the more efficient it will be.


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By Jason Halladay
Administrator
From Los Alamos, NM
Nov 13, 2012
Climbing at the Belvedere crag near Nago with a great view of the northern end of Lake Garda and the town of Torbole sul Garda below. June 2013.

gary ohm wrote:
This was a huge leap forward in climbing videos. I have no idea who the Seattle Mountaineers are, but they really performed a service with this video.

Agreed. Take a look at this other Seattle Mountaineers video on crevasse rescue using a z-pulley. I've used it to help instruct others on this topic. Definitely the best instructional video on the topic that I've found.


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By DannyUncanny
From Vancouver
Nov 13, 2012

One quick trick to save a bit of time is to not have the follower clip into the anchor. Just leave them on the belay they came up with, and take their belay device for setting up the next pitch. Then the last thing the new leader does as they are leaving is they remove the original belay and take that device up with them. It means that you are swapping belay devices every pitch, but that shouldn't matter. If you do it fast, the whole lead swap only takes about 20 seconds.


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By gary ohm
From Paso Robles
Nov 13, 2012

^^
Is the focus of the thread the video itself or the techniques outlined therein? Anyway.........
Wow... Again these guys (and gals) are awesome!!

Side note: Is it still necessary to admit that women kick ass in most everything that guys do? The whole Men/women, guys/gals,typing thing really gets old. I'll keep it up if the ladies need it. Otherwise I'm going to just take it for granted that climbers/athletes/etc are all pretty bad-assed.

That evolution in the video is a cluster*&^% mess of a process (for the first 50 times you practice it) and these people did a great job lining it out.

Pluses: Again, fast forwarding when necessary, using colors (I can't stress how HUGE that is in an instructional video) and keeping the guy with the right voice doing the job. I actually enjoyed the old school Batman-esque frame tilt to make it look like he was walking, and crawling, vertical.

Great Job!!


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By david doucette
Dec 2, 2012
Top of Intersection Rock, Joshua Tree NP.

great video, i agree with most of the comments.

i usually forego the clove hitch and just do the figure eight even though that is not adjustable. i like the clove hitch backed up by the figure eight though because i do like a figure eight in my anchor, just my personal preference.

i also use the top shelf as well.


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