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Help! Awesome freestanding wall..
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By Brian Taylor
From Salt Lake City, UT
Jan 11, 2013
On WSU campus

Ok so i went for a complete redesign, this one's a little more thorough. I'm thinking it's probably a little more possible too.
Climbable surfaces are tan.
green would likely be tied down tarps or something to keep people from getting into the frame.
Red is a railing for the lounge

I know it's not quite 100% perfect yet, bear with me
I know it's not quite 100% perfect yet, bear with me



does this overhang look reasonable now?
does this overhang look reasonable now?



Positive wall on the other side, for some easy climbs too ;)
Positive wall on the other side, for some easy climbs too ;)


Back lounge area, just figuring out basic shapes back here
Back lounge area, just figuring out basic shapes back here

Even if you don't want to build a wall and take it to burning man, I must say, playing around in SketchUp has been fun for this.

Thanks again for feedback. :)

Edit: I should mention, right now this is 16' tall, the positive wall is about ~10' across, the overhung wall is 12' across


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By Jon Zucco
From Denver, CO
Jan 11, 2013
yaak crack Red Rock Canyon, NV

Now that is pretty. Well done, sir.


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By Brian Taylor
From Salt Lake City, UT
Jan 11, 2013
On WSU campus

Pretty, sure. But I also want to make sure it's possible. I think most things in life are easier on paper than in reality.

I figure the weight of the lounge will keep anything from tipping over, provided I can make that overhung bit structurally sound.

Thanks for your diagram Jon. It made sense of some things


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By Glen B
From Murray, UT
Jan 11, 2013

Brian,
You may want to consider a wine glass shape to keep the center of gravity over the support. Take your initial design and make a truncated 'V' then polar array around the base. You'll still need a wide base ring to stabilize it. You could ship it in quarters and bolt together onsite. Add a door in the narrow and ladder up inside to top.
Glen


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By Chris Rice
Jan 11, 2013

Is the plan to make it modular - transport it in sections and assemble on site? To build it on site entirely is going to take some time. I like the design much better and it would certainly be more stable - but a pretty big job if you will have time constraints perhaps.


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By Happiegrrrl
From Gunks
Jan 11, 2013

It seems to me that the loungers can't see the climbing installation.

Why have the lounge if they cannot see it?


Here's what I would do....

Make a 4-sided center pillar for climbing. Have the lounge surrounding it on all 4 sides, at a height of (whatever) off the ground... Put huge jugs and smaller climbing holds on the floor bottom so climbers could start up the center pillar, and then climb "underneath" the lounge.

Have some holes in the lounge floor, near the center pillar. Climbers coming up the pillar would need to climb through those holes in order to get to the lounge(which can also be accessed on outer perimeter via stairs, ladder, stacked structures or whatever).

Climbers can continue up the pillar which would top out at (whatever) feet above the lounge) or they could just get off at the lounge. People could also begin climbing at lounge level.



This has no cantilever roof like the original, but it seems that it would be very interactive. I don't see the original drawing, or revised set of them as having a relation between lounge and climbers, but in the version I described, they are very relational.


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By Larry S
Jan 11, 2013
The wife and I road-trippin on the Connie.

I like what Glen said above about the wineglass shape. I'm picturing section of half the wine glass, like a horseshoe shape with the bottom of the U overhanging and the two legs of the U vertical or slabbed. It would be self supporting and you could reinforce/balance the overhang thru the other two orthogonal walls. The deck is in the center of the U. From that, You could put a T on top of the U and extend it out a bit. With the T shape you could have a double-level lounge, with the part in between the walls high enough to look out over the top of the wall, and with no inside corners, people wouldnt be falling on each other.

 ____________
|____====____|   
    |    |
    |    |
    ",__," 


Something like this from the top - the === are steps


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By Brian Hudson
From Greenville, SC
Jan 11, 2013
Valor Over Discretion (5.8), RRG

Larry, that vaguely resembles something else. lol


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By Glen B
From Murray, UT
Jan 11, 2013

Not sure what your appetite for risk is for nonclimbing spectators falling off the top. I'd keep the sitting area at the top recessed a bit for safety (engineer's perspective). Also a cheap way to add stability is using tie downs (rope/stakes).

On a less serious note...add a few small windows to fight off the sieging climbers with flaming spears and hot oil.

Good luck!


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By Brian Taylor
From Salt Lake City, UT
Jan 12, 2013
On WSU campus

I'm sketching up all your ideas and looking at which ones make sense to use, these are all great. Thanks! Will post more sketches soon


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By Maurice Chaunders
Jan 12, 2013
Colombian Crack

Happiegrrrl = obvious burner. Great suggestion


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By Jawon
Jan 12, 2013
Yes climbing

How about a geodesic dome with slab climbs on the outside and overhangs on the inside. Maybe have some open sections so it's not totally enclosed. And a patio on top.

I was researching geodesic homes once and they are supposed to be easy (relatively) to build and take down, plus would be more straightforward to transport because of the uniform studs and panels.

Whatever you end up doing, you're gonna have to post lots of pictures of it in action! Cool idea.


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By Brian Taylor
From Salt Lake City, UT
Jan 12, 2013
On WSU campus

Ok so it seems like this is what we're building towards, It feels right. Maaybe a bit more to pad for, but that's something we can deal with. What do you guys think?

redesign
redesign


Slabby sides up the back to the lounge area, 8x11 feet up there
Slabby sides up the back to the lounge area, 8x11 feet up there


Quinn, if we can ever get enough climbers to come out and join us, we would totally do something like that for a main structure.


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By rogerbenton
Jan 12, 2013
Whoever this guy is, he's just plain irresponsible.

Im no engineer either but i did spend a good deal of time as a structural ironworker building and fixing bridges and skyscrapers and getting to know the stregths and weaknesses of steel.

That said i think your first idea could work, it would simply involve a base of horizontal steel beams and a bomber joint between it and the slanting overhanging part. As long as the base covers the footprint of the whole structure you are fine ( assuming that bomber joint is truley bomber). Problem is, the volume and weight of the necessary sized steel would require setup and teardown to be done with a crane and a fairly experienced crew.

My personal 2 cents- i think your idea is frikkin awesome but i also think hippygirls input about the lounge and wall being interactive is a winner. Climb to the lounge, watch climbers from the lounge.

Anyway, good luck.

Feel free to pm me regarding the steelwork if you want.


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By Alex M. Smith
From Jersey City, NJ
Jan 12, 2013
Mt. Marcy

Hey Brian,

Just saw the post and was looking through some of your options. For any of your options where you have a decent cantilever (especially if you've got some 200lb drunkard throwing for the lip), you're going to need a tie down in the backspan to prevent uplift. The weight of the lounge up top will do wonders for preventing this uplift, but if you're counting on that completely, you'll have to make sure its ALWAYS full (not with everyone crowding around the lip to see if Johnny is gonna send). Otherwise, you'll just be able to count on the weight of the empty structure in to counteract that.

What are your options for connecting to the ground there? I know someone mentioned the inability to get anything too deep int he soil there?

Let me know what you've got and feel free to shoot me a PM if you've got any specific questions.

-Alex


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By Allen Corneau
From Houston, TX
Jan 12, 2013

You could also consider renting a concert truss system like this...



These things are broken down into manageable sections for transport and then bolted together on site. (Concert roadies set up and tear down systems like this night after night while on tour.) The upright columns are assembled and then the main square is lifted into place with chain hoists on the top of each column.

This kind of truss system would allow for support of an unbalanced wall design (like the first one) by using guy wires up to the trusses AND allow for concert-style lighting from all sides.

As far as the "route-setting = art" goes: I've been a setter for ~5 years and while I can see the creative side of my setting as "art", I think the real appreciation comes from the climber after they have climbed it and think to themselves, "Wow, that was a cool climb!"

Good luck with your project.


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By Optimistic
From New Paltz
Jan 12, 2013

DannyUncanny wrote:
That's a big cantilever. You would need a pretty heavy counter weight or some guy lines or ground anchors if you want the free end to be unsupported.


If he can get someone to park one of those huge greyhound-bus-chassis RV's next to it for the duration, that could be the counterweight.


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By Jon Zucco
From Denver, CO
Jan 12, 2013
yaak crack Red Rock Canyon, NV

I like the idea of making it an hourglass shape. This could eliminate the need for a huge counterweight but might need a bunch of dangerous guy-wires jutting out around where people will be stumbling around. Also, you have to think about people getting down after they send... You're latest design provides that down the slabby back.

How tall are you making this. What is the scale?

Lounge at the top is a good thought, but if it is an hourglass shape, you will have a much harder time controlling uneven weight distribution at the top edges. Combine this with the weight of the climbers on multiple sides, it could lead to some wobbling... You get the point.

I like your latest design. I think it is the most practical and aesthetic one thus far.

When is burning man? Maybe I'll put in a request to take off work... I never had much interest, but if there is going to be climbing AND fire...


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By Glen B
From Murray, UT
Jan 12, 2013

If you put overhangs on opposite sides, the weight of the opposing overhang structure will provide for counterweight. I would still use tie down anchors since the consequences of your wall tipping or collapsing would be severe.


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By Brian Taylor
From Salt Lake City, UT
Jan 12, 2013
On WSU campus

Jon, burning man is in the middle of a dried up lake bed in Nevada, google maps Black Rock City, Nevada, and that'll give you a pretty good idea. It's late august/early September of every year. Something about it starting the Monday after.. labor day I think?


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By IamDman
Jan 12, 2013
avatar

looks cool! good luck


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By Happiegrrrl
From Gunks
Jan 25, 2013

Climbing Magazine posted a link to this (Craigslist ad for a climbing wall which was used at previous BM) on their Facebook this morning:
sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/zip/3564961636.html

It might be sort of cool to recycle the one with a past.....


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By Old and Busted
From Centennial, CO
Jan 25, 2013
Stabby

$3K+ and counting.


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By steven sadler
From SLC, UT
Jan 25, 2013

The flat thing protruding out the front on the ground will help stop this thing from tipping forward from it's own weight and the weight of a climber. Also the back flat spot could be a patio which would also help with the tipping. Hopefully this would make it so you wouldn't have to do any modifications to the ground. (concrete, anchors, etc)

burning man wall
burning man wall


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By Woodchuck ATC
Jan 25, 2013
Rock Wars, RRG, 2008

DannyUncanny wrote:
That's a big cantilever. You would need a pretty heavy counter weight or some guy lines or ground anchors if you want the free end to be unsupported.



Yup. we built one like that a few years ago and had huge 2 by 12's extended out for frame, and anchored back to framework on vertical wall. That or wires to hold back the upper portion weight. It can be done though.


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