Route Guide - iPhone / Android - Partners - Forum - Photos - Deals - What's New
Login with Facebook
 ADVANCED
Help! Awesome freestanding wall..
View Latest Posts in This Forum or All Forums
   Page 1 of 2.  1  2   Next>   Last>>
Follow replies to this topic? Notify me at the top of web site.
1

Email me.
 
By Brian Taylor
From Salt Lake City, UT
Jan 11, 2013
On WSU campus

Hey guys, I'm gonna start by just getting this out of the way and saying, I am by no means an engineer.

But I know some of you guys have a pretty good handle on things like that. So here's my project.

Wall
Wall


I want to make a big freestanding wall (similar as possible to the one above) and take it to burning man (All painted and lit up so it'll fit in) so I can showcase routesetting as art!

Right now we're writing up a grant proposal for the project, but we still aren't sure how we would build the support structure for the wall, AND make it so we can take it apart, put it in a trailer, and take it home once the festival is over - not to mention putting it up before the festival starts-

One last thing. in the interest of making the wall as interactive as possible - and so people can get good pictures from different angles - we want to make the back side of the wall a lounge area if it's possible.

Like I said, I'm not an engineer, I'm just throwing ideas around. Flame me if you want, please help me if you can. I'm just looking for ideas and feedback, this is by no means a closed door project either, if you live close enough and want to be a part of it, by all means!


FLAG
By Ryan Williams
Administrator
From London (sort of)
Jan 11, 2013
El Chorro

Would you be open to adding vertical support beams on the sides? If so, you could probably get away making the supporting structure out of wood. If not, I don't see how you'd be able to support the weight of the wall, much less a lounge, w/o using steal beams.

I'm no engineer either, but I am interested to see some educated answers.


FLAG
By CJC
Jan 11, 2013

are you going to end up torching it on the playa?

better use wooden holds.


FLAG
By DannyUncanny
From Vancouver
Jan 11, 2013

That's a big cantilever. You would need a pretty heavy counter weight or some guy lines or ground anchors if you want the free end to be unsupported.


FLAG
By S Denny
From Carbondale, CO
Jan 11, 2013


FLAG
By Brian Taylor
From Salt Lake City, UT
Jan 11, 2013
On WSU campus

Ok, so we're not going to burn it. Steel would be fine so long as we can assemble it out there, or at least have the frame be in small enough pieces that we could fit it in a trailer and get it out there. We're totally open to the idea of support beams, but we'd rather not if we can avoid it. (The silhouette pictures would be way less cool with support beams)

Thanks for the video Denny, BUR-NING-MAN. haha


FLAG
By drmartindell
From Homer, Ak
Jan 11, 2013

I appreciate good route setting and I also appreciate good art however I've never considered that the two are even remotely similar.
In my experience what constitutes a good route has nothing to do with it's visual impact. And regardless of how amazing the colors and arrangements of the climbing holds are they are seldom indicators of stellar climbing.
So, I would have to hear more about why mixing route setting and art together makes sense.

As far as taking something to burning man and setting it on fire I'm all in.


FLAG
By MojoMonkey
Jan 11, 2013

Have fun at burning man - hope nobody gets crushed!


FLAG
By Chris Rice
Jan 11, 2013

I'm not an engineer but I have been building things (like houses etc) for nearly 40 years. I have also built several climbing walls over the years. You simply cannot build that structure free standing in a practical way without some supports near the front. If you plan to take this to a public outing I assume you will be buying a large liability insurance policy on it (you'd better be). The insurance company may well demand engineer involvement and plans.


FLAG
By Glenn Schuler
From Monument, Co.
Jan 11, 2013
A grey fox skull wedged in a crack 100' up on a FA I was working on - don't see that every day...

drmartindell wrote:
So, I would have to hear more about why mixing route setting and art together makes sense.


It's f*#cking Burning Man Dude!!! Slap some glo in the dark neon paint on there, send the heinously rad boulder problems wearing your lit up fur coat (and nothing else) and BAM - you have art.


FLAG
By Glass Tupperware
From that stuff out East
Jan 11, 2013
Summitting Independence Monument

The easiest thing to do might be to sink a few ~10 ft 4" schedule 40 pipes into the ground at the support structure (easier and more stable than a cumbersome cantilever). Then you could build trusses off of the sunk pipes. The calculations are all relatively straightforward, though you need to make a number of assumptions about the soul quality. Though I don't have much structures experience, so maybe a civil engineer can chime in.


FLAG
By drmartindell
From Homer, Ak
Jan 11, 2013

Glenn Schuler wrote:
It's f*#cking Burning Man Dude!!! Slap some glo in the dark neon paint on there, send the heinously rad boulder problems wearing your lit up fur coat (and nothing else) and BAM - you have art.



Haha, I stand corrected. Seriously, you're totally right.


FLAG
By Steve86
Jan 11, 2013

Can you pour concrete? What's the soil composition like? As far as the framing goes, you could stick with wood and just use carriage bolts to get sections together onsite. And then screw in the pre cut plywood panels. You are going to have to overbuild the thing somewhat. The real problem with what is pictured is keeping the thing upright. You don't want to kill someone.


FLAG
By Brian Taylor
From Salt Lake City, UT
Jan 11, 2013
On WSU campus

Ideally this would be something that could be set up, taken down, then set up somewhere else. Because we can't leave anything at the festival (They have a strict LNT policy) Steel poles into the ground actually might be a reasonable possibility at burning man though, because it's basically just an empty ancient lakebed.

drmartindell- As far as routesetting and art are concerned, how is setting NOT art? You're basically choreographing a vertical dance up a rock face, we'd just be using paint and lights to enhance that aspect.


FLAG
By drmartindell
From Homer, Ak
Jan 11, 2013

Brian Taylor wrote:
drmartindell- As far as routesetting and art are concerned, how is setting NOT art? You're basically choreographing a vertical dance up a rock face, we'd just be using paint and lights to enhance that aspect.


I was open to hearing your argument in favor of routesetting=art, having heard it I agree with you. I had just never thought of it that way.
Unfortunately I spend a little time in climbing gyms and have on occasion volunteered to help set routes but I never put the two together. Sometimes I feel like climbing gyms are increasingly further and further removed from rock climbing. Maybe it's just my idea of what rock climbing is though that they are far from. Anyway, the whole thing is pretty funny to me and I try not to take any of it seriously. Enjoy your project! Thanks for the thought invoking topic.


FLAG
By Steve86
Jan 11, 2013

The simple solution would be to just build a bigger frame around the cantilevered end.

Head on view:

frame
frame


Where the inside structure is the wall you have depicted and the outside frame shown here just exists at the front face of the wall. That way the you don't have support beams interfering with climbable area. Also you could use the frame as support for lighting, etc and to "frame" your art.

Call it an artistic choice but honestly it is a lot more LNT than sinking a bunch of stuff in the ground, aside from the extra wood.


FLAG
By Gregory D
From La Verne
Jan 11, 2013
fun in the (twilight) sun

Although it would change you design, you could consider adding a mirror image to the other side. It would provide some counter balance and you could have your lounge in between. It would also double your combustible material if the mood strikes you.


FLAG
By John Wilder
From Las Vegas, NV
Jan 11, 2013

Brian Taylor wrote:
Ideally this would be something that could be set up, taken down, then set up somewhere else. Because we can't leave anything at the festival (They have a strict LNT policy) Steel poles into the ground actually might be a reasonable possibility at burning man though, because it's basically just an empty ancient lakebed. drmartindell- As far as routesetting and art are concerned, how is setting NOT art? You're basically choreographing a vertical dance up a rock face, we'd just be using paint and lights to enhance that aspect.


Having spent my share of time in the desert, i wouldnt count on being able to sink steel poles 10' into the ground out there- at least not easily. From a portability standpoint, something that steep would have to have side support. You might consider making it a cave instead of putting poles alone on the sides. This would prevent injury from anyone swinging (you could also account for this with careful route-setting). But a big cave could be super cool and self-supporting. My friends have one like this in their backyard- fit on a trailer, made of steel, its 16' x 16' x 8' tall (was originally built to fit inside a 2-car garage).
You could definitely go taller with steel, though.

edit: Steve86 idea is good too- they did this a Momentum in Boulder, that massive lead wall of theirs is hanging off the ceiling due to how steep it is.


FLAG
By Brian Taylor
From Salt Lake City, UT
Jan 11, 2013
On WSU campus

Steve86- do you think we could do the frame from above at an angle so it frames the wall from one side rather than head on?

Like this?



Side view


FLAG
By Ryan7crew
Jan 11, 2013

Another idea would be to have some kind of anchor still at the base, then have cables running from the top of the wall to even further back behind the wall to another anchor/stake. This would allow you to get away with a shallower anchor at the base, and keep the silhouette you desire. Then its just a statics problem to figure out how thick the cable needs to be and how far back the cable's anchor/stake needs to be to support the wall and climber(s).


FLAG
By mandarin
Jan 11, 2013

What is represented by the dark grey rectangle pictured below the structure? If it is not meant to be a base, maybe it should be. You may be able to engineer enough bracing that a long base could support the structure, sort of a U shape rotated 90 degrees. You could hide the base with astro turf or some other material.


FLAG
By Chris Rice
Jan 11, 2013

This has "train wreck" written all over it - hire someone knowledgeable to design this thing before you hurt someone badly.


FLAG
By Ian Stewart
Jan 11, 2013

It would be much much much cheaper and easier to make a freestanding wall that isn't ridiculously overhung like that. And do you actually want people to climb on it? If so, how many people at burning man do you think are going to be good enough to do anything on what appears to be around an 80 degree overhang? Most gyms don't even use overhangs that severe, and if so it's only for very small sections of the wall.

If route setting is the "art", keep the "canvas" simple.


FLAG
By Steve86
Jan 11, 2013

Brian Taylor wrote:
Steve86- do you think we could do the frame from above at an angle so it frames the wall from one side rather than head on? Like this? Side view


Your pictures don't seem to be loading...


FLAG
By Brian Taylor
From Salt Lake City, UT
Jan 11, 2013
On WSU campus

Ian- I've been leaning the less steep way for a while now, thanks for the feedback. I'm gonna draw up another one and post it soon here.


FLAG
By Jon Zucco
From Denver, CO
Jan 11, 2013
yaak crack Red Rock Canyon, NV

I'm no engineer and this ain't pretty (drew it in MS paint), but this is a cheap way to build a semi-portable and sturdy bouldering wall. Maybe this helps, maybe not. Of course, it will have to look more like art if you're going to take it to burning man.


basic climbing wall schematic
basic climbing wall schematic


FLAG


Follow replies to this topic? Notify me at the top of web site.
1

Email me.
Page 1 of 2.  1  2   Next>   Last>>