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Head/pick movement on petzl ergo or nomic
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By Jason S.
From Durango, Co
Feb 21, 2013
Attempting the Serrator... didn't go well

I just picked up a pair of new generation ergos, and after climbing on them less than 10 hours, both of the heads have a little bit of movement when I pull on them. I always checked the bolts before going out, and they were kept super tight. I can't tighten them enough to stop the movement, and I am wondering if anybody else is having a similar problem. Both of my tools are displaying the same issue... a small amount of noisy movement in the head. Did I get a crappy set, or are they just flexy, noisy tools?


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By Ben Brotelho
From Albany, NY
Feb 21, 2013
Epic free solo with a pack on

I have the new quarks which share the same head, and I can say that I've never experienced such a problem climbing on them for the last year or so.

Maybe others can chime in, but it sounds like a defect to me...the attachment holes in the pick are too big


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By Kevin Connolly
From CO
Feb 21, 2013

i had a head on my quarks come loose where the head would move in relation to the shaft due to the rivet failing. the rivet did not come out but it would spin in its hole. i would take it back to wherever you got it but if that is not an option let me know and i can probably find you the contact info for the rep that helped me out the second time which was way faster than going through the store where i bought them. if you got them through some major online retailer like backcountry that should be really easy. i would expect to see more issues like this now that the europeans are trying to compete with companies like black diamond making a killing by paying shitty wages in third world countries.


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By Ray Pinpillage
From West Egg
Feb 22, 2013
Cleo's Needle

I'd call Petzl USA. They're pretty responsive.


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By Jeff J
From Bozeman
Feb 22, 2013

Jason S. wrote:
I just picked up a pair of new generation ergos, and after climbing on them less than 10 hours, both of the picks have a little bit of movement when I pull on them. I always checked the bolts before going out, and they were kept super tight. I can't tighten them enough to stop the movement, and I am wondering if anybody else is having a similar problem. Both of my tools are displaying the same issue... a small amount of noisy movement in the pick. I can post a video if anybody is having trouble visualizing the problem. Did I get a crappy set, or are they just sloppy, noisy tools?


There is not suspose to be any movement in the pick/heads. Contact Petzl and let them know there is a three year warenty and if a rivet is comming loose that the a manufactier defect.
My nomics are super tight and have zero head and pick movement.


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By Jason S.
From Durango, Co
Feb 23, 2013
Attempting the Serrator... didn't go well

Here is what I am working with... it looks like the head/shaft connection is shifting. I am waiting to hear back from petzl. After looking at the warranty page, I was alarmed to note that marker and stickers will void the warranty on helmets. I wonder why they don't want people using sharpie to put a name in a helmet...


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By Dane
Feb 23, 2013
Cham '11

Looks/sounds like a defective tool to me. Just call Petzl, get and RA# and send them back. I have no doubt they will immediately take care of you.


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By Leo Paik
Administrator
From Westminster, Colorado
Feb 23, 2013

Suck. My old Quasars used to do that. I was told it was the crush washer. Replacing them helped a bit, but they were never tight. My Quarks were tight to start but started doing a bit of this. My Nomics don't do that yet. Definitely contact Petzl.


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By doligo
Feb 25, 2013
Jose Cuervo Fruitcups dirtbag style

Jason, let me know what you hear from Petzl. Just noticed that my Nomics make the same squeaking noise when dry tooling. Thanks!


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By Ian Cavanaugh
Feb 25, 2013

Sharpies are very acidic and can have affects on the foam quality in the helmet. That is why they dont want you to use them. stickers they might have found some types of sticker glues that could have the same affect.


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By Ben Brotelho
From Albany, NY
Feb 25, 2013
Epic free solo with a pack on

Just wondering: is this noise coming from play between the pick and the head, or from play between the head and shaft?


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By Jason S.
From Durango, Co
Feb 25, 2013
Attempting the Serrator... didn't go well

The sharpie/foam argument is logical, but my Ecrin roc is foam free... I just heard back from petzl, it sounds like they want me to send them in... I am currently waiting on a RA#. The noise is coming from the head shifting inside the shaft, resulting in the pick angle changing. One tool is slightly worse than the other, but they are both noisy and have a fair bit of play.


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By Theriault
From Oromocto NB Canada
Apr 12, 2013
Ziggy Piggy, Welsford NB

I have been rocking nomic's since the first gen came out.... 7 years ish... ive had this prob in the past, check the bolts, the threads get crushed after some use... get new bolts and it should solve this..


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By RobC2
Apr 12, 2013
This..

More quality products from Petzl. Check what this skinny Russian chick did to this Nomic...

Busted Nomic
Busted Nomic


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By Bill Kirby
From Baltimore Maryland
Apr 12, 2013
Me eating a cliff bar walking back from Frankenstein Amphitheater

+1 on Petzl hooking you up..

Rob.. Still hating on Nomics? Haha.. I would defend them again if I still had them. Cassin X Dreams are the bomb!


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By Jeff J
From Bozeman
Apr 15, 2013

Kirby1013 wrote:
+1 on Petzl hooking you up.. Rob.. Still hating on Nomics? Haha.. I would defend them again if I still had them. Cassin X Dreams are the bomb!



I have the original nomics with cascade pick whic is an awesome tool.
I bought my wife a set of Cassin X-dreams this winter and Iam likeing the X-dreams over the Nomics.


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By Bill Kirby
From Baltimore Maryland
Apr 15, 2013
Me eating a cliff bar walking back from Frankenstein Amphitheater

Jeff.. Try the X Dreams in ice mode on the handle then switch the mixed pick out to the X ice pick. After that install your Nomic pick weights onto the ice picks. The X Dreams climb ice better than any other tool out there set up like that. They work well on mixed stuff too. Oh and no detuning the picks either!


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By Jeff J
From Bozeman
Apr 16, 2013

Kirby1013 wrote:
Jeff.. Try the X Dreams in ice mode on the handle then switch the mixed pick out to the X ice pick. After that install your Nomic pick weights onto the ice picks. The X Dreams climb ice better than any other tool out there set up like that. They work well on mixed stuff too. Oh and no detuning the picks either!


Iam still sporting the mixed pick that came with the X-dreams.
Ill be picking up the ice picks next season most likley

So am I reading this correct. After installing the ice pick on the X-Dream, also install the Nomic weights on the X-dream's pick. . .?


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By Bill Kirby
From Baltimore Maryland
Apr 16, 2013
Me eating a cliff bar walking back from Frankenstein Amphitheater

Yes, install the weights from your Nomics onto the X ice pick. Trust me.. The X Dreams don't stick in the ice as well with no weights.

The X Dreams set up this way will amaze! They stick usually with one swing. The picks are made in Italy out of stronger steel then the Petzl picks. Therefore the X ice pick is narrower than the Petzl and displaces less ice. No more bashing out every placement! The X ice picks clean way better too.. and you don't have to detune them. The X ice picks are really to go out of the wrapper.


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By Ben Brotelho
From Albany, NY
Apr 16, 2013
Epic free solo with a pack on

Kirby1013 wrote:
The picks are made in Italy out of stronger steel then the Petzl picks..


I implore you to back this up with some facts.


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By Ray Pinpillage
From West Egg
Apr 16, 2013
Cleo's Needle

The X-Dream is way better than the Nomic, all you have to do is buy all new picks and use some Petzl parts. You'll never go back to Petzl after that.


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By Dobson
From Butte, MT
Apr 17, 2013

Ben Brotelho wrote:
I implore you to back this up with some facts.


Unfortunately that's not possible. The term 'stronger', is way too vague to be meaningful regarding the use of steel parts.

Even quantifiable testing like Charpy, CATRA, and hardness is hard to relate to real-world performance.

That said, I'd love to know what alloys and heat treat recipes the major manufacturers are using.


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By Bill Kirby
From Baltimore Maryland
Apr 18, 2013
Me eating a cliff bar walking back from Frankenstein Amphitheater

I implore you? What are we playing scrabble?

Fact, You've never climbed with a pair of X Dreams before.

Fact, The X Dreams are better than any tool Petzl makes.

Fact, well a guess.. You own a pair of Quarks. I'm thinking either this year's or last year's.


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By Ben Brotelho
From Albany, NY
Apr 18, 2013
Epic free solo with a pack on

Kirby1013 wrote:
I implore you? What are we playing scrabble? Fact, You've never climbed with a pair of X Dreams before. Fact, The X Dreams are better than any tool Petzl makes. Fact, well a guess.. You own a pair of Quarks. I'm thinking either this year's or last year's.



Fact: I love scrabble...my modus operandi is to make shit up and...implore people to challenge me. Do it!!!!! I fuckin' dare ya! Got 30 points with two letters this weekend when, to my aunt's great displeasure, I pulled "zep" out of my ass and it turned out to be a "long sandwich," according to the scrabble dictionary. Prodigious use of triple letter points, for the win. I still lost to her, and to my mother, because they're masters.

Fact: I have last year's Quarks, and I love them, although I will admit their Ice picks get stuck easily.

Fact: never used X dreams. I'm sure they're nice tools, but I don't believe that their steel is superior to Petzl's. I think something like this is too subjective to say that there is a "better tool." I like my Quarks better than my dad's Nomics, even for steep ice, but that is probably because I'm used to them. I was just curious about your claim that that Cassin has better steel than Petzl.


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By Bill Kirby
From Baltimore Maryland
Apr 18, 2013
Me eating a cliff bar walking back from Frankenstein Amphitheater

Seriously, I should have known that typing something like that would get ridiculed on Mountain Project. I mean what the hell are we doing on here anyway? Hahaha. Like Dobson said you can't test so there's no facts. I just repeated something I heard. That the steel for the Cassin picks is mined out of Italy. The town's known for it's metalworking and superior steel. I feel it's true because of the fact that the X ice pick is much narrower than the Petzl's picks. I figure if something's stronger than you can use less of it to achieve the set goal.

You should try a pair of X Dreams Ben. I get up to the Adirondacks alot so maybe I could lend you my pair to check out. I was in your shoes all last season. I loved my Nomics and defended them to the death! I tried every tool on the market as I hire guides and attend as many Ice Fests as I can. I still always went back to my Nomics. I hired Ian Osteyee for a week towards the end of the season. I told him I was just looking for a partner but as always let me know if I should change to be a better climber. The first thing he said was get rid of the Nomics. I replied the same way you did to my posts here. He simply told me take one of Nomics and a X Dream for a lap. It was clear as glass the X Dream outperforms the Nomic. We should meet up and try it if you don't believe me. I implore you! just kidding..

Ian tweaked my techinque and let use a pair of X Dreams the rest of the week. By the end of the trip I felt comfortable on any 4. I could place screws, I never had to shake my hands out and I never fought with the X Dreams to get them in or out of the ice. I could run up a 4 even if I was dead tried.

I don't have any facts about the steel but it's a fact if you try the Cassin X Dreams set up like I said you'll say the same thing I do. In the meantime have you ever detuned your picks? It's easy to do but easy to trash your picks if you do it wrong. Ask my buddy, Mike. Haha
I could post up you some pictures and a description if you like. I'm sure people here would back me up (or trash me haha) to give you a piece of mind.

OK, not serious.. You can't use your potty mouth while playing scrabble. Your reply made me laugh! Good use of vocabulary.


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By dirtbag
From Bellingham, WA
Apr 18, 2013
i really enjoyed this drive to the tetons... can't wait to make it back to WY

Here is what I am working with... it looks like the head/shaft connection is shifting. I am waiting to hear back from petzl. After looking at the warranty page, I was alarmed to note that marker and stickers will void the warranty on helmets. I wonder why they don't want people using sharpie to put a name in a helmet...

>

:0
my nomics definitely do not do that


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