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Have a pair of Beal Gully 7.3MM doubles/twins on the way - Need a new belay device
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So my ATC guide probably wont cut it with these new ropes. I'll be climbing ice and alpine routes with em. Yes- they're super thin. Yes I researched them. Yes - I know, I know....yer gunna die. |
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Mammut Alpine Smart goes down to 7.5mm. That's the smallest I've seen any device go. I didn't know the Mega Jul did dental floss! I wonder if that ASmart would work? I know I would want a locking assist if I was using 7.3mm twins. |
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Not the Mega Jul - The MICRO Jul. The smaller sister to the mega. Edelrid designed it specifically to be utilized with their 6.9 MM flycatcher twin ropes. |
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I presume you'll also need a skinny rope device for whoever shares your rope. Check out the DMM Bugette. |
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Yes, most certainly. I will likely be buying two micro jul's, unless someone can give me any other first hand advice with any other device which is suitable. |
cms829 wrote:Not the Mega Jul - The MICRO Jul. The smaller sister to the mega. Edelrid designed it specifically to be utilized with their 6.9 MM flycatcher twin ropes. 6.9 MM...hahah. My cordelette is 6.5 MM Man the first lead on these is gonna be "exciting". I will be using them for harder multi pitch ice and alpine. Also likely one or the other as a ski touring and glacier rope. Apparently they're the hot new thing as far as a double/twin rated rope goes. The lightest in the world. And still has extremely impressive numbers.... Only weighs 36 grams per meter - each 60 meter weighs 4.76 lbs, dry treated! My 9.8 evolution velocity weighs 8.2 lbs per 60 meters! Diameter 7.3mm UIAA Falls 6-7 (As twins) 12-13 (As doubles) Weight 36 G/M Dynamic Elongation 35 % (as doubles, I cant find a value for twins) Static Elongation (80KG) 9.8 % Impact 5.2 kN (As twins) 7.9 kN (as doubles) Lets compare this to my Sterling evolution velocity 9.8MM single - Diameter 9.8mm UIAA falls 6 Weight 62 g/M Dynamic Elongation 26.40% Static Elongation 8.60% Impact Force 8.8kN 'Not too shabby if you ask me!Hey you're not supposed to fall on ice so what the hell! I know my fat ass would rather carry 4.76 lbs miles up the mountain. Good luck. Hope you enjoy the ropes! |
Crotch Robbins wrote:I presume you'll also need a skinny rope device for whoever shares your rope. Check out the DMM Bugette.The bugette is "closer" then the ATC guides 7.7 low end. But it is still 7.5mm – 9.5mm. So .2 MM short on the low end. .2 mm is .0078 inches. I seriously have to think there comes a point where I am splitting hairs. But obviously not an area where I am willing to cut corners. |
Bill Kirby wrote: Hey you're not supposed to fall on ice so what the hell! I know my fat ass would rather carry 4.76 lbs miles up the mountain. Good luck. Hope you enjoy the ropes!Hahaha...I hear ya man. Fortunately I am pretty comfy on thin ropes. As long as I have the data to back it up, its all good! Plus, Im only 135 lbs max.. so I have that going for me. lol |
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Interesting problem. You could try contacting Beal or one of their distributors and see what they recommend using. |
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Your ATC guide will most probably work fine if use use it this way: |
David Coley wrote:Your ATC guide will most probably work fine if use use it this way: people.bath.ac.uk/dac33/hig…Yea, I have looked at this and will likely try it out. I have to say though - Without actually testing a "fall" I put my 6.5 MM cordelette into my atc guide and it seems like it may function fine. LOL Obviously I would not use the guide without further testing. I know there is a thread on this very subject....ATC guide and sub 8MM ropes on this very site. But IdK if I gained anything by reading it. |
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I've had good experiences using the MegaJul this past rock season and on my 8.2 doubles for ice. No issues so far (definitely no wire pulling out!). I'd imagine the MicroJul, just being a scaled down version would work well for the Beal Gully. |
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Try a rap with your ATC guide and see how much control it has (or lacks). Try the same with a Reverso 4 and it's noticeably more controlled. Imagine catching a leader fall after that. I prefer a Reverso for any climbing on doubles/twins and use an ATC guide for single ropes. You can use the Reverso for singles too, but it isn't as good with fat beat up cragging ropes and it wears out faster, so I just use the ATC for those. |
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Actually you really only need one Micro Jul. Just use a Munter for the top belay and when the second get up there take the belay device off their harness. |
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I have the gullys and the micro jewel works really well with them. I bought 2 so that each climber has their own for belays and rappels. The grivel guide devise can't remember the name works as well. |
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Yea Im gonna do some testing with my atc guide. In all modes. But im still going to get a micro jul on order. Just that no one seems to have them in stock in the northeast. |
cms829 wrote:Not the Mega Jul - The MICRO Jul. The smaller sister to the mega. Edelrid designed it specifically to be utilized with their 6.9 MM flycatcher twin ropes. 6.9 MM...hahah. My cordelette is 6.5 MM Man the first lead on these is gonna be "exciting". I will be using them for harder multi pitch ice and alpine. Also likely one or the other as a ski touring and glacier rope. Apparently they're the hot new thing as far as a double/twin rated rope goes. The lightest in the world. And still has extremely impressive numbers.... Only weighs 36 grams per meter - each 60 meter weighs 4.76 lbs, dry treated! My 9.8 evolution velocity weighs 8.2 lbs per 60 meters! Diameter 7.3mm UIAA Falls 6-7 (As twins) 12-13 (As doubles) Weight 36 G/M Dynamic Elongation 35 % (as doubles, I cant find a value for twins) Static Elongation (80KG) 9.8 % Impact 5.2 kN (As twins) 7.9 kN (as doubles) Lets compare this to my Sterling evolution velocity 9.8MM single - Diameter 9.8mm UIAA falls 6 Weight 62 g/M Dynamic Elongation 26.40% Static Elongation 8.60% Impact Force 8.8kN 'Not too shabby if you ask me!That's all well and good, but forgetting about the relative cost benefits of singles vs doubles (dead horse), you're not really saving any weight, since you're carrying 2 ropes (doing the math, you're actually carrying MORE weight - 4.76 x 2 = 9.52 lbs). Sure, each one only weighs ~4lbs, but you can never (safely) climb "hard multipitch ice" with just one. Ski touring may be a different story (though super thin ropes aren't really ideal in that setting since they tend to cut into crevasse lips like hot knives through butter, and they're hard to prussic up. But that's another topic entirely...) Just saying... |
cms829 wrote: I have to say though - Without actually testing a "fall" I put my 6.5 MM cordelette into my atc guide and it seems like it may function fine. LOL Obviously I would not use the guide without further testing. I know there is a thread on this very subject....ATC guide and sub 8MM ropes on this very site. But IdK if I gained anything by reading it.One reason this isn't the best of tests is that as a rope has more force applied to it, the thinner it gets. This means that the belay plate holds less well (Jim will be along in a bit to express this better). The rope then slips through the brake hand. If the slip is lengthy, the skin melts. This is the opposite I believe of a Munter, where because one part of the rope is crushing another, the breaking force goes up as the load goes up. So, your ATC might work fine for low forces, but once your ropes get loaded to the point where they are only 6.2mm think they could slide out of control. |
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For what I do I really like the Gullys they work great on long ice routes where having two ropes to get off is convenient. I haven't used mine enough to know how durable they are but they are holding up well. i know a couple of guys that have had them out all last season for almost everything that they are climbing and they have said they are super impressed with the durability of the ropes. |
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I've been using the Micro Jul for about 8 months now, paired with 7.7mm twins. I bought it primarily because I wanted a near auto-locker with such skinny ropes (and yes, yes..I know it's not a true self-locker, but it's really damn close). Likes: Solid unit, stainless steel. It really stops you dead in your tracks if you release the brake hand on rap (I practiced that out of curiosity on TR). So I'm comfortable that if something went wrong on rap/belay the device would stop feeding rope quickly. Very quickly. Note, however, that you need to pair it with a certain type of HMS biner (works fine with my Rock Exotica Pirate and Petzl Attaché, not sure it works well with I-beam type biners). Dislikes: It's not as intuitive as most belay devices, e.g. ATC's. Practice with it a bit to get the hang of the thumb loop, etc. If you don't get the hang of that it will lock up so easily and quickly it can get annoying. Edelrid's video on using a biner in the eyelet hole as a rap "handle" looked sort of silly to me at first. With all the lock ups, however, I tried it on rap and and it makes things noticeably easier. Overall, a positive recommendation but the lock ups may get to you. Just my opinions. |
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Rdw- actually "I" won't be carrying more weight, as now the rope gets split into two packs. As a whole yes they are heavier. However the benefits of doubles to me on long ice far outweighs that point. I can't make 60 meter raps with my single 9.8. Having the choice to make full raps, having two ropes instead of just one, and the fact that overall the approach will be easier n more pleasant for both my partner and I is why I chose doubles |
