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By Bill Dugan
From San Bernardino, CA
Dec 9, 2010

All,

Ok so i've searched the forums for answers to my questions but didn't find what exactly i'm looking for. I'm looking to purchase a haul line that I can use for hauling, of course, and a pull-down line when rappeling using the "Reepschnur" method (as its refered to by R&I Magazine). I'm looking for suggestions on thickness, length, and static vs dynamic. I'm leaning towards an 8mm 60m static, but is this too thin for the super heavy bags and how will the ascenders perform on such a thin line? What are the pros and cons? Thx in advance...

BD


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By Erik W
From Bay Area, CA
Dec 9, 2010
North face of Ama Dablam - taken on approach to Kongma La.

For a pull line it's too thick, for a haul line it's too thin.

When you say "super heavy bags" are you talking haulbags, or just the occasional pack that needs to get hauled on a pitch because the second can't climb with it?


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By Bill Dugan
From San Bernardino, CA
Dec 9, 2010

By that I mean one or several very heavy haulbags. A line suitable for hauling loads on Grade VI routes.


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By Spyder
Dec 9, 2010

hey buddy,

well, you could go in a few different directions here. me: i prefer security and efficiency, so i use a 10.5mm static from bluewater. some folks would think that's crazy and waaaay too heavy. here is how i see it; i don't do routes in-a-day or speed ascents so why compromise my safety (which is my #1 priority). when you're soloing and rapping your haul line you'll especially appreciate the thicker diameter. and of course, a thicker line with a thicker, burlier sheath will stand up a bit better on sharp edges, corners and the like. also, a static line will greatly increase your efficiency when hauling as well as put less stress on the different components in your hauling anchor. i'm referring to the bag bounce you get when hauling with a dynamic line.

so, sure, an 8mm line can totally handle the weight of your bags but i find it very comforting to have a bigger cord. hopefully others will chime in with different advice.

  • disclaimer: above when i say, 'i dont use 8mil cord cuz safety is my #1 priority.' i realize that safety is relative to ones ability:)


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By no1nprtclr
From Front range Colorado
Dec 9, 2010

I know there's many schools of thought on this topic. But if you're interested, I have a static Mammut 8.8 x about 65m I could sell you. I bought a spool of about 100m and cut it, figuring rope stretch for rapping full length raps. I've never used it and has been sitting in my closet out. If interested get in touch.

Thanks,
Juan


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By SeanKuus
From Steamboat Springs
Dec 9, 2010
PS

Erik W wrote:
For a pull line it's too thick, for a haul line it's too thin.


8mm isn't "too thick" for a pull line. It's actually thick enough that you can rap on it and avoid the somewhat complicated reepschnur method, which was the cause of an accident in Yosemite last May (see R&I). As for being too thin for a haul line, this hasn't been true in my experience.

I faced the same question a year ago. I wanted both a light tag line and a haul line, and eventually decided to go with the 8mm 60m static. I used it on el cap for hauling a full pig and it worked great. Jugging on it is a little scary just because it's so skinny, but keep in mind that static ropes are more abrasion resistant than dynamic ropes. My 8mm also serves as a light tag line for long routes (light compared to 10.2, that is). It's not as light as a 6mm tag line, per se, but ascenders generally aren't rated for ropes skinnier than 8mm, so if you want a rope that will work as a heavy duty haul line and light tag line, I'd recommend the 8mm. Otherwise, if you have the money, you could look into getting a fat static (~10.2mm) for hauling and something lighter for a tag line. Hope that helps.


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By Kevin Stricker
From Evergreen, CO
Dec 9, 2010

You can haul on an 8mm static rope, but don't expect it to last more than 1-2 walls before it is sketchy enough you will not want to rap on it. It also sucks to be dealing with such a skinny line on a wall as you tend to use your hands to assist in the hauling, either initiating your hauling stroke or to free the bags from a small roof. After 1-2 days you will hate it.

I like climbing big walls with a 10m static and a 7-8 mill tag. You can use the tag line to pull up gear mid-pitch and you can leave the wall hauler with the haul line at the belay. Get to the top of the pitch and use a small pulley and tibloc to haul up your haul line, rope bag, wall hauler, some water and maybe a snack. Yes it takes longer and is another step but I find it easier to do more simple tasks than fewer hard ones on a wall. Leading every pitch with all the lead gear, hauling gear, and a big static hanging from your butt is a waste of effort in my book.

For speed climbing, ditch the haul bags and haul line and climb with just the lead and tag ( or lead line only if you are really confident).

BTW an 8mm static is easy to jug. I have jugged 6mm kevlar, which is something I would not recommend.


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By Andrew Gram
Administrator
From Salt Lake City, UT
Dec 9, 2010
Andrew Gram

I hate jugging 8mm lines because they just look too skinny. I don't care if it is strong or abrasion resistant enough(which I personally don't believe it is) - I am a thousand percent more likely to get snail eye and bail if I have to spend any time at all jugging or hauling an 8mm line on a wall. 10mm is my minimum.


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By Jordan Ramey
From Calgary, Alberta
Dec 9, 2010
What was left of the rack when I topped out on the last pitch of Snake Dike on Half Dome.

mountainproject.com/v/climbing_gear_discussion/hauling__tips>>>

from other thread

Jordan Ramey wrote:
Don't haul with a static line. Haul with a dynamic line. Static lines are good for fixing and don't make much difference for hauling. Pros: 1. extra lead line in case yours gets coreshot 2. isn't a piece of steel if you drop you bags and shockload the anchor cons: 1. rope stretch? not really an issue if you're just hauling. bring less stuff, climb faster.


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By Erik W
From Bay Area, CA
Dec 10, 2010
North face of Ama Dablam - taken on approach to Kongma La.

Sorry I didn't elaborate more on my answer. I wanted to confirm whether the hauling duties were for a pig or pack before I went off on an unneeded tangent. Kevin did a great job of explaining why an 8mm cord isn't necessarily optimum for hauling on walls (in terms of cost effectiveness over multiple walls). As for a pull line, in re-reading the OP I now see that the primary duty of this one cord is for hauling, so the pull line requirements are secondary. Apologies on my misunderstanding.

I personally have used 10mm statics for most of my haul lines - primarily because they are cheap, durable as hell, and a good sweet spot in terms of weight and my own personal preference for a jug line. I have used a 10.2 dynamic as well (old lead line). Dynamics are nice in that you have the back up rope in case something happens to the lead line, and you can take advantage of the oscillations in the "spring" effect of the rope and getting a little hauling assistance that way.


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By Bill Dugan
From San Bernardino, CA
Dec 10, 2010

Great info. Thanks to everyone for sharing your knowledge.


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By Bob Dobalina
Dec 10, 2010

I've used both static and dynamic haul lines in my limited wall climbing career. I just have to say that one of my BIGGEST FEARS is losing the bag(s) off the anchor somehow. Then watching in terror as they shock-load the end of the haul line and rip the entire team off the wall with it.
It just gives me the heebie-jeebies!


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By Spyder
Dec 10, 2010

one of my BIGGEST FEARS is losing the bag(s) off the anchor somehow. Then watching in terror as they shock-load the end of the haul line and rip the entire team off the wall with it.

Yeah, vertical limit is a great movie! but there's no way that would happen unless you're belayed off hooks or something:)

seriously though, i fell over 100ft straight down onto our anchor and nothing barely budged. propagate those same circumstances to three burely bolts at an ASCA belay and your odds of nothing happening increase even more.

great input from everyone! this forum soooo destroys the taco. it's almost impossible to get a straight answer over there.


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By Bob Dobalina
Dec 11, 2010

My only static gear are my daisies. Everything else is dynamic baby! Most desert belays are not three shiny new bolts in granite. More like a drilled angle, a fixed nut, and a good cam... In sandstone.

P.S.- I have never seen Vertical Limit. Hollywood sucks at accurately portraying rock climbing.


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By 20 kN
From Hawaii
Jan 1, 2011

Herb wrote:
I've used both static and dynamic haul lines in my limited wall climbing career. I just have to say that one of my BIGGEST FEARS is losing the bag(s) off the anchor somehow.

Why the hell does everyone say that? Look its simple, just donít tie the other end of your haul rope into anything. Problem solved. Then if your bags somehow come unattached from the anchor they will fall to the ground.


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