Haul Line Knot Protector and Using a Swivel

Standard advice for protecting the knot on the haul line is to put the top of a cola/gatorade container over the knot. My problem with this has been that up-drafts cause that cone to go shooting up the haul line and not to protect the knot. I guess some sort of keeper leash tied to the pig or a friction hitch above the bottle to act as a stopper?

Other solutions?

Also, when using a swivel/rotor, is there a reason not to tie the haul line directly to the rotor? BD shows to use a locker to attach the rotor to the haul line and also a locker to attach the rotor to the pig (haul line - locker 1 - rotor - locker 2- pig). I would have just tied the rotor to the haul line and eliminated that top locker.

I'd use a keeper sling on the knot protector. Why not? If it keeps the haul line from getting frayed, its worth its weight. I use a light piece of cord 3 or 4 mm maybe. Probably could get away with less if you tape over it.

Easiest way is to just run the cord through the inside of the bottle and tie the loose ends on the outside. If you wanted to use really light cord with this method, just run some duct tape over the cord to make sure it doesn't get sawed through.

The other way to attach it is to drill two small holes near the threaded (let's designate this as the top) part of the bottle. Run one end of cord from the bottom of the bottle (via the inside) and out one of the holes. At this point you should have the bulk of the cord at the bottom of the knot protector with one end passing through a drilled hole. Then take the same end that you passed through the drilled hole earlier and bring it back the the inside through the other drilled hole. Tie the loose ends together. This is an extra step but protects the keeper sling from abrasion better than the previous method.

As far as what is the proper way to attach the haul line to the swivel, I'm not sure. I don't see a problem with tying into the swivel with the haul line. Saves weight too. To attach the keeper sling, just tie it into your figure eight. i.e. pass the tail through both the swivel and the sling before you start the follow through. If you do decide to use a locker, just tie an 8 on a bight and clip both the keeper sling and the 8 to the locker.

Don't tie the keeper sling to the pig when using a swivel. There isn't a need for this when you can attach it above the point of rotation. This will allow the pig to still rotate freely. If the sling were to be tied to the pig and the pig started to rotate, the keeper sling could wrap around the swivel. This could cause the sling to snap which puts you back at square 1 or it could restrain the swivel making it dead weight.

I can send you images of the Keeper sling set up or swivel tie in if you'd like. Just shoot me a PM.

Hope this all helps/makes sense.

The best damn knot protector you can make is by going to an auto supply place, and buying one of those long-narrow funnels they use for pouring transmission fluid and stuff, and sawing off the long neck. It might blow up the rope a bit, but think about it - it will only blow up until it hits the first obstruction where the rope rubs - it will either sit there and perfectly pad your rope on the lip, or else just slide back down.

Using a clip-in loop during the actual haul is absolutly redundant, and one more annoying thing to have contend with. Don't clip in when hauling.

DO have a clip-in loop for the funnel, after you remove it from the haul line, and switch ends with it.

I would most assuredly not tie my haul line into the swivel. You will get extra abrasion compared to a carabiner.

More significantly, I almost never tie the end of the haul line to the pig. The leader puts the haul line through the hauling device, and I would then attach the pig to the swivel [under the knot protector funnel] using a butterfly knot. The extra haul line becomes lower-out line, or if no lower out line is needed, just gets bagged.

Remember to bag the excess haul line to the locker above the swivel [another reason you need to use a locker] otherwise when the bag spins, the haul line will wrap around the swivel 26 times and you will have an epic Charlie Foxtrot.

Cheers,
Dr. Piton

The only advice I would give is don't use a swivel unless it is absolutely necessary! Otherwise it just adds complexity and another link when one is not needed.

PTP:

Could you pretend I am the biggest moron you have ever met and please explain your haul system/steps in painful detail?

Sometimes it is that one small detail, previously overlooked by those who find it so very routine, that makes the description fall totally into place.

Thanks in advance.

Whiskeybullets wrote:PTP: Could you pretend I am the biggest moron you have ever met and please explain your haul system/steps in painful detail? Sometimes it is that one small detail, previously overlooked by those who find it so very routine, that makes the description fall totally into place. Thanks in advance.

I'm extremely jealous of Pete's intuitive knowledge of big walling. I'm practicing my systems right now for my first foray into Zion this March, and am stoked as ever to have a blast hanging on gear 1k up a wall.

It's Zion though so we're planning the fix, and flash method versus hauling/ledges/etc...

Greg - I am not sure how intuitive it was initially. Certain things I "get" better than others, and I guess wall climbing is one of those things I "get" pretty well. But I can tell you that even after 42 El Cap routes, I still figure out new ways to do things better, and bad ways to do things worse! I can definitely tell you that the more you do it, and the more you think about it answering emails and writing in forums like this and elsewhere, the more you figure it out, and the more intuitive it becomes.

Whiskey - I'm happy to help, even though there is no "e" in Canadian whisky. Or scotch, either. Only the Merricans and the Irish seem to need an "e" in whisky. However your question above is too vague to answer.

In fact, why don't you email me, and we can fire emails back and forth. Ask away, and I'll do my best to answer. Same for anyone else, of course.

I pretty much taught Mark Hudon how to solo big walls over a winter of email exchanges, so just about anything is possible. He was like the proverbial sponge, soaking up the info and asking really good questions and working out stuff and trying ideas and so on. We sent hundreds and hundreds of emails back and forth over the months. It was actually a lot of fun, keeps my brain in shape in the off season, and of course it was great when he sent.

Plus it's a great excuse to avoid work.

Well Pete I'm going to Zion this coming week for 5 days full of wallin. So I am sure I will ask a shload of questions once that experience is over with.