Has Anyone Used these New Style Rawl Bolts?
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These are 1/2" dia by 3 1/2" long Powers Rawl bolts bought on Tuesday. |
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I like the looks of the blue cap on the end. Simple anti-spinning technology. |
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I've used them without a problem in Devils Head granite and Shelf Road limestone. They do seem to grab and tighten down quickly. |
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The blue cap on the end is to keep dust and grit out of the threads as you're placing the bolt. |
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Benjamin Chapman wrote:The blue cap on the end is to keep dust and grit out of the threads as you're placing the bolt.Those aren't the same blue caps as you're probably used to. Rather than just filling in the space in the end of the wedge piece (to keep dust out...), the caps on these are a plastic nut, open at the end and larger than the wedge. I'm sure an engineer-type could explain it better than me how it works better than the old design. |
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I have placed a handful of them. Not sure about keeping the washer on the bolt. When you leave the washer on it is hard to keep the plastic cap on the end, because you only get about 1 thread holding it in place before tightening it. But if you are careful, it works just fine. |
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You need a 5/8 socket. I was not happy when I pulled out the 9/16 socket and realized it did not fit. /quote> |
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These new bolts are a vast improvement over the older design. They drive much easier and I have yet to have problems with one tightening down. The new design seems to do a much better job of keeping dust and grit out of the threads. ClimbTech is a great source for these anchors. |
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I have placed about 10 of these new style Rawls now. I find I can get about 2 1/2 threads on the plastic and still get into a 1/2" dia. hole. I kept the washer on. Yep, 5/8 wrench. Good thing I checked before humping the load out to the crag. |
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Killis, |
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Ian Caldwell wrote:I have placed a handful of them. Not sure about keeping the washer on the bolt. When you leave the washer on it is hard to keep the plastic cap on the end, because you only get about 1 thread holding it in place before tightening it.Are you using a 1/2" hanger (assuming a 1/2" bolt)? If not, switch, it will improve the situation as the hanger wont take up thread space. |
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Never had any trouble placing the older style 1/2 inch powers bolts. When I've removed them, the old style sleeves came out pretty easily. |
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The Power Bolt + has a slightly lower strength ratings than the standard Power bolt. The PB + has a tension strength rating of 4905 lbs to the standard PB's 6520 lbs. The shear is much closer between the two at 8030 lbs for the PB + and 8225 lbs for the standard PB. These are the ratings from Powers Fasteners and are for 4000 PSI concrete, 1/2" ss bolts with a min. embedment of 2 1/2". 4000 PSI concrete could be considered as a medium hardness stone. For softer stone, or lesser PSI concrete, the ratings go down. The PB + should be bomber. Keep in mind that ratings are for bolts placed with a specific torque. PB & PB + are torque controlled bolts and for optimum performance should be torqued to 40 ft-lbs for the PB + and 45 ft -lbs for the standard PB, admittedly I have never torqued any that I have placed. Which bolt is best? I prefer the standard PB, but I guess it comes down to price, as performance seems very close. If you are placing bolts in softer stone such as sandstone or limestone I would recommend using the Fixe Glue in with Powers glue or Redhead A7 epoxy, Powers Glue is available from Fixe.com I get A7 Epoxy from Toolup.com Which ever type of bolt you choose, ALWAYS use Stainless. Don't be tempted by the cheaper prices of plated steel or plain steel. They do not last anywhere near as long. Also most hangers are SS, so there is the issue of dis-similar metals to confront. If you use glue in bolts, be absolutely certain to counter sink the eye of the bolt by at least the diameter of the bolt. This increases the strength and reduces the likely hood of failure. This is a great article published by American Safe climbing on placing glue in bolts. Good stuff to know. |
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That isn´t a Wave Bolt, it´s one of mine (Bolt Products). It hasn´t failed, this picture is at a load of 5660lbs (ca 25kN) which is the requirement. The tester failed to extract or break the bolt. |
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What about countersinking to reduce the visual impact and the chance of the biner unclipping its self? Obviously over countersinking would be bad, making it harder to clip, and perhaps making the biner not set correctly and making it torque. |
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M Sprague wrote:What about countersinking to reduce the visual impact and the chance of the biner unclipping its self? Obviously over countersinking would be bad, making it harder to clip, and perhaps making the biner not set correctly and making it torque. I would think slightly countersinking your bolts would help reduce the twisting action on the bolt, which with the thinner stock and shape might have an effect over time.The Glue Ins are MUCH lower impact visually than any hanger-based bolt. Countersinking would do very little to further reduce the visual impact. I don't counter-sink Bühler-Style bolts and they are damn hard to spot from the ground and even on route. I think some of this has to do with them not having flat surfaces to act as a reflective surface. The Bühler Style (parallel leg) style bolts all have "Built In" resistance to torque. The Fixe/Petzl single leg ones are more of an issue. I'm sure Jim can comment on that more than I though! Not sure about unclipping but I haven't seen any issues with unclipping. Certainly no more so than normal hangers. 12mm Tit Bolt with SS QL and A7 Glue |
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M Sprague wrote:What about countersinking to reduce the visual impact and the chance of the biner unclipping its self? Obviously over countersinking would be bad, making it harder to clip, and perhaps making the biner not set correctly and making it torque. I would think slightly countersinking your bolts would help reduce the twisting action on the bolt, which with the thinner stock and shape might have an effect over time.Countersink the bolt and the gate is more likely to rub on the rock and open. You can twist the bolts further, they don´t mind (I could put another 360° twist in before they start to complain a bit!). Countersinking has another downside, it makes it hard to cut them of and core drill them out if required and as I said, it doesn´t make the bolts any stronger, in fact in rock with a hard skin such as sandstone it is thought to make the placement weaker though personally I wouldn´t think it makes much difference at all either way. For areas with really soft rock where cracking below the bolt is unsightly we make much bigger bolts up to 12mm single bar ones which pretty well eliminates the flexing you get with the thinner bolts. |
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So Jim, you have found or do you feel that loads applied via a swinging fall, which would put a twisting torque on the bolt do not achieve any benefit from counter sinking either? that would be good to know. Do you think that this would apply to standard "no shoulder" eye bolts as well? We use mostly 1/2" x 4" no shoulder galvanized eye bolts which we have always counter sunk. Do you think it is better not to counter sink these types of bolts as well? |
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David, |
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David Quinn wrote:So Jim, you have found or do you feel that loads applied via a swinging fall, which would put a twisting torque on the bolt do not achieve any benefit from counter sinking either? that would be good to know. Do you think that this would apply to standard "no shoulder" eye bolts as well? We use mostly 1/2" x 4" no shoulder galvanized eye bolts which we have always counter sunk. Do you think it is better not to counter sink these types of bolts as well?I´d countersink a standard eye bolt as normally there´s nothing really stopping them turning, `proper´single stem bolts are normally cut at 45° at the end to stop them turning so that would be the other way to go (there is a torque test for the UIAA Safety Label). The hassle with eye bolts with a round eye that aren´t sunk a bit is the rope tends to get jammed in the angle between the bolt eye and the rock, either when you want to go up or when you pull the rope down. The Fixe 10mm bolt has the same problem. |
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Back to the original topic... Here are a few pictures showing the differences between the new and old 3/8 powers bolt. Has anybody noticed that the actual bolt on the new style is much narrower than the old style? Also the expansion sleeve is much smaller on the new style, making these seem more like a wedge bolt than a full sleeve anchor. |