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Happy Hour Peace Signs
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By cisco manzo
May 30, 2006
Edd

Does anyone know anything about the peace signs painted on Happy Hour?
Who the F**k would do something like this? It's obvious someone rappelled to do this.


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By Jason F
From Denver, CO
May 30, 2006

Yeah, I just saw that today. They where not there last Friday so some a hole was busy over the weekend. Your right, somebody had to be on rope to do it. Its a shame that anybody with rope and gear would resort to that kind of stupid crap.


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By Scott Edlin
From boulder, co
May 31, 2006
me

I haven't seen it yet, but I have enjoyed casual cragging at happy hour for years. One of the things I enjoyed most was the relative cleanliness of the area (for a local boulder crag). This is very disappointing.

Does anyone have any thoughts on cleaning it? If possible, does anyone want to try to organize a group to head up on a nice weekend day and remove it? It seems like I remember reading some threads on rc.com about various methods of removing grafitti from rock.

Edit:
I found a post on rc.com by Malcolm Daly suggesting an OP contact Steve Muehlhauser (climbing ranger at Eldo). Apparently, they have cleaned a bunch of stuff in there.
rockclimbing.com/topic/112040


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By killclimbz
May 31, 2006

Some Dillhole has also sprayed graffiti on some of the rocks on the way into Plotinus wall. I don't believe they were peace signs, but it is lame none the less.


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By Ron Olsen
From Boulder, CO
May 31, 2006
In the cow pasture below the Tre Cime de Lavaredo, after climbing Spitagoras, a 12-pitch 10a route. <br /> <br />Photo by <a href='/u/bruce-hildenbrand//11057'>Bruce Hildenbrand</a>

Here's the photo posted by Greg Hand:


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By Scott Edlin
From boulder, co
May 31, 2006
me

Anyone want to head up there on sunday for a closer look, or to spot test some brushing or solvents? I'll even buy some brushes, rags, and a product or two. Rather than just bitch about it, I'd like to do something about it as soon as possible.


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By Bruce Hildenbrand
May 31, 2006

I am heading out of town or would offer to help out. Here is what I would suggest. Get some wire brushes and some citrus solvent like Simple Green which is biodegradable. My guess is that you can probably get a lot of the paint off with just scrubbing but the Simple Green may help with the stubborn stuff. I would avoid using anything like paint thinner as it is toxic and could harm the flora and fauna.

Bruce


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By Scott Edlin
From boulder, co
May 31, 2006
me

Thanks for the tips, Bruce. I was thinking of starting with a mild detergent and nylon brush, and working up from there. The ranger I spoke to today at Eldorado SP suggested two different "graffiti cleaners" from Home Depot, one toxic and the other not. I'm sure I won't get a lot done, but I can find out what works without too much effort or expense.

Another point the ranger brought up was to make contact with the land managers and inform them of what happened and my intentions. My understanding is that Happy Hour is in the Roosevelt National Forest, managed by the Boulder Ranger District. I intend to contact them tomorrow to confirm this and to let them know what's up. If anyone has additional suggestions, please post up.


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By Lee Smith
Jun 1, 2006
You can love your rope but you can't "LOVE" your rope! <br />(Back by Popular Demand.  There you are Mom) <br /> <br />

Scott,

I am in on the clean-up attempt. I have a limited amount of time on Sunday but would like to help in any way I can. What time are you interested in heading up?

Lee


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By Ron Olsen
From Boulder, CO
Jun 1, 2006
In the cow pasture below the Tre Cime de Lavaredo, after climbing Spitagoras, a 12-pitch 10a route. <br /> <br />Photo by <a href='/u/bruce-hildenbrand//11057'>Bruce Hildenbrand</a>

Scott Edlin wrote:
Another point the ranger brought up was to make contact with the land managers and inform them of what happened and my intentions. My understanding is that Happy Hour is in the Roosevelt National Forest, managed by the Boulder Ranger District. I intend to contact them tomorrow to confirm this and to let them know what's up. If anyone has additional suggestions, please post up.

Try contacting Maribeth Pecotte, mpecotte@fs.fed.us, 303-541-2503, at the Boulder Ranger District at 2140 Yarmouth Avenue (just off north 28th St.) in Boulder. I spoke with her last year, and gave her some photos of climbers in Boulder Canyon for use in an information kiosk she was planning.


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By Wanderinfree
From Boulder, CO
Jun 1, 2006
Second pitch Arrow in the Gunks.

Scott--Let me know if you want some additional help on Sunday. We've got a ton of extra ropes, so we could rig up multiple lines to scrub. Also, if you want some help in tracking down the Boulder Rangers to notify them of the clean-up plans, just let me know. I have lots of time right now while I'm job hunting. You can email me at kdwildner@gmail.com.

-Kim


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By Scott Edlin
From boulder, co
Jun 1, 2006
me

Thanks everyone for the suggestions and offers of support.

I just spoke with someone at the Boulder Ranger District and she was unsure of who exactly owns the land that Happy Hour is on. So, I left a voicemail for Ed Perault, who is the recreation staff supervisor. I'm hoping that he can confirm ownership, offer guidance, and grant any necessary permission to perform cleanup activities which may require the use of toxic solvents. Who knows, he may even provide some additional resources..

My plan is to still head up there on Sunday to take a closer look, document, and possibly try out a few methods and products to see what works and how well. I have a long day on Saturday, so I'm thinking of meeting up at the SE corner of the Justice Center parking lot (6th and Canyon) around 10am for anyone who wants to carpool. I'll bring a rope and enough gear to fix a line, and I'll also bring cleaning materials. Ascenders and/or aiders might be nice to have for hanging around.

This is still tentative so I will confirm prior to Sunday morning. Also, I will post any information I get back from the Boulder Ranger District.


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By Tom Hanson
Jun 2, 2006
Climber Drawing

Several years ago, some adolescent punks tagged The Projects Wall at Castlewood Canyon with a mural of bright blue paint.
The unsightly mess is still there. Does anyone have suggestions on how to remove this eyesore? The Projects Wall is not in close proximity to a road. Would one have to hump in a gas compressor and sandblast it in order to remove it? There must be an easier method.


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By Ron
Jun 2, 2006

I am sure glad to see you all taking the intiative to fix this. Was just up there this morning and couldn't believe what I was seeing.

I can't make it up Sunday to help. But I'll keep an eye on this post to see if another day of clean-up is planned.

You can still see the giant CU on the 3rd flatiron after all these 20 some years (?) since it was removed.

Very sad to see this.


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By Wanderinfree
From Boulder, CO
Jun 2, 2006
Second pitch Arrow in the Gunks.

Scott--Count two more to help out on Sunday. See you at the parking lot.

-Kim


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By adam francis
Jun 2, 2006

Solicited advice for paint removal on the supertopo forum and got this reply:

The products are Removall 330 and its cousin 320, if I remember correctly.

They are environmentally safe.

One is spray on, the other is paint on. I have used both. Both work, both are tedious, both are expensive. The process takes time, but works very well.

What you do:

Low-powered water spray. A LOW-powered pressure washer if the rock is hard enough, backpack sprayer if unable to get access for the P-washer, any sort of hand sprayer will work, but it takes a while. (the back pack sprayers used in lawn care are one example).

You can buy Removall in spray cans, (expensive but good for places with small graffiti or difficult access) or in 5 gallon tubs and use a paint sprayer.

The point is, whether you paint it on or spray it on, it must remain gooey-- it must not dry out.

This means repeated coats for several hours in very bad cases.

After the product has worked, (more on how in a second) you Gently spray it off with very light water pressure, from an angle, not directly or perpendicular to the rock. (why in a bit)


This takes all day. If done correctly, you will be amazed. I have thought of starting a business to do this, but as I am a bit under the weather now, it ain't going to happen. And besides, nobody really takes the issue seriously enough in my opinion, but maybe they will some day.

OK, the theory (well not just a theory, it's been shown to be true):

This product works by lifting the PIGMENT AND binder. It does not dissolve the binder like strippers, it gets under the binder and pigment, and bubbles it off mechanically. This takes a long time.

Graffiti with more binder is easier to get off that than that with less.

Old is harder to get off than new, because the binder fades but the pigment remains, in the pores of the rock.

Flat paint is harder than gloss paint, because gloss has more binder, and the glossy crap too, and sits on top better, while flat has a different binder that soaks in more. UGH! Still the treatment works, it just may take more applications.

YOU NEED A LOT OF PATIENCE AND DETERMINATION TO GET THIS RIGHT.

IF the graffiti had been blasted with a high-powered pressure washer, pigment may have been driven deep into the rock, and these shadows may never come out. SO, NO HIGH POWERED P-WASHERS, got it? Good!

Also, HPPwashers will fvck up the rock badly, chipping it and etching it. You can dig holes in concrete with a HPPwasher, don't use one to remove graffiti from rock NO MATTER WHO tells you it is OK, OK???

I can post pics of test patches on old and new Graffiti, removed with the spray-can version of Removall, on hard sandstone. Did this with the city forester of Hoover, AL, in MRP.

One day when we have good enforcement and houses nearby with neighbors to report a$$holes spraying, we will remove all the graffiti with these methods that we have tested.

BTW, it had been several years now, the product is truly safe, the rock has not suffered at all, and I am sold on it.

We also used the brush-on stuff at sandrock with some success, but the fvcking redneck 'artists' saw a new canvas and re-painted the place within 6 months.

They should all be in prison, strung up by their thumbs in my opinion.

I think that's about it, if you have questions or I left something out, let me know.

I think I will post this to its own thread, and maybe others would like to know about this but they might not see it here.


Curt Johnson


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By Scott Edlin
From boulder, co
Jun 2, 2006
me

Thanks everyone for your comments and offers of assistance.

As of now, I have traded voicemails with Cat Luna at the Boulder Ranger District. As best I can tell from the message she left me, she will require some kind of a volunteer agreement. She will also require details in order to authorize the project, and if solvents are to be used the details must be run by a wildlife biologist and other people.

Sounds like typical forest service red tape. I am continuing to try to get with her today, but I am having a hard time getting through to her. IF I don't get with her on this, I still intend to head up on sunday to document and try out some non-solvent methods. Basically, I want to try natural fiber vs metal brushes with campsuds and elbow grease. I'm afraid if I take it further than that without approval I'll just make matters worse..

I would think resorting to a product like removall would be a close-to-last resort. Same goes for sandblasting with walnut shells. My guess is the FS will have no part of approving those, but I intend to discuss all options with Cat.

If I cannot get through to Cat today, does someone want to try tomorrow (I'll be out all day)?


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By Ron Olsen
From Boulder, CO
Jun 2, 2006
In the cow pasture below the Tre Cime de Lavaredo, after climbing Spitagoras, a 12-pitch 10a route. <br /> <br />Photo by <a href='/u/bruce-hildenbrand//11057'>Bruce Hildenbrand</a>

Scott Edlin wrote:
Thanks everyone for your comments and offers of assistance. As of now, I have traded voicemails with Cat Luna at the Boulder Ranger District. As best I can tell from the message she left me, she will require some kind of a volunteer agreement. She will also require details in order to authorize the project, and if solvents are to be used the details must be run by a wildlife biologist and other people. Sounds like typical forest service red tape.

Better to ask for forgiveness than permission...don't think the graffiti artists got approval from the forest service!


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By Jo Holloway
Jun 3, 2006

Scott Edlin wrote:
As of now, I have traded voicemails with Cat Luna at the Boulder Ranger District. As best I can tell from the message she left me, she will require some kind of a volunteer agreement. She will also require details in order to authorize the project, and if solvents are to be used the details must be run by a wildlife biologist and other people. Sounds like typical forest service red tape... Basically, I want to try natural fiber vs metal brushes with campsuds and elbow grease. I'm afraid if I take it further than that without approval I'll just make matters worse.. I would think resorting to a product like removall would be a close-to-last resort. Same goes for sandblasting with walnut shells.


Thank you, Scott, for taking the initiative to at least partially remove the bastardized mercedes symbols.

In defense of the Forest Service red tape, the volunteer agreement is a waver form that protects the agency from what is increasingly a lawsuit-happy culture. You wouldn't believe the B.S. that people sue the National Park Service about annually! I imagine the Forest Service gets more than their share as well. The wildlife biologist and likely toxicology checks on solvents isn't a trivial matter. Simple Green, Campsuds and other "environmentally friendly" solvents and soaps biodegrade when in water, but not necessarily in dry soils at the base of the crag. Yup, it's already impacted down there, but your cautious initial approach is a good one. It's best to stick with water and steel brushes for now. Campsuds won't do anything to the paint, but the trickle of soapy water down the rock may kill off the lichens in big, visible stripes. My guess is that multiple days of bucket and brush brigades will do the trick.

Thanks again for your efforts...


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By Lee Smith
Jun 3, 2006
You can love your rope but you can't "LOVE" your rope! <br />(Back by Popular Demand.  There you are Mom) <br /> <br />

Scott,

I am still planning on meeting up with you Sunday. I will try to be at the crag around 10:30. My plan is to support your effort in any way I can, either on the crag with rigging and scrubbing, or as a sherpa to ferry loads, buckets, water etc.. I will bring some supplies, like buckets with lids and brushes. Let me know if this is ok with your plans.

Lee


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By Scott Edlin
From boulder, co
Jun 4, 2006
me

Thanks again for all the feedback.

The plan is on to meet at 10am at the SE corner of the JC parking lot. I may be running a few minutes late (had a near-epic yesterday). I will be in a silver-ish 92 accord.

I'm bringing a few buckets, brushes, and water, along with two 60m ropes, one 30m, and a whole bunch of webbing and gear. I agree with Jo's comment that even supposed safe products could kill off lichen, so I'll keep it simple today. I don't want to make things worse than they are. We'll see how much effort it takes to remove a certain amount of paint so that I can better plan some future efforts.

Anyone can show up at any time and help in any way. Please do not bring any cleaning chemicals or solvents until I can get the issues surrounding that sorted out with the FS.

BTW, I am bringing my rack and do intend to get some climbing in, too!


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By Scott Edlin
From boulder, co
Jun 4, 2006
me

Thanks to everyone who helped out today. I'll post a write-up tomorrow after sleep.


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By Tom Hanson
Jun 5, 2006
Climber Drawing

Tom Hanson wrote:
Several years ago, some adolescent punks tagged The Projects Wall at Castlewood Canyon with a mural of bright blue paint. The unsightly mess is still there. Does anyone have suggestions on how to remove this eyesore? The Projects Wall is not in close proximity to a road. Would one have to hump in a gas compressor and sandblast it in order to remove it? There must be an easier method.


I was back to The Projects Wall at Castlewood this last weekend and all of the paint has been removed. Much thanks to those responsible for the clean up!


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By Scott Edlin
From boulder, co
Jun 5, 2006
me

Very special thanks to Lee, John, Rhonda, and Nate for helping out yesterday. We learned what we're up against, and got some fun climbing in too. The stuff comes off, slowly, with a lot of work and without any cleaning agents. I have started a Happy Hour Cleanup album with pictures relating to this work.


This image shows the result of scrubbing with a wire brush, water, and a rag, for about 40 minutes. Using the same technique, I'm estimating about 6-7 man hours to reduce the visibility of the entire symbol to the level of the scrubbed section.

Lessons Learned:

  • Nylon doesn't do much, wire is the way to go.
  • A smaller wire brush probably works better than a big one.
  • Not much water is required (medium spray bottle works well).
  • Bolt anchor can be used for accessing both symbols, with a directional.

So, what to do from here? I will continue to attempt to get with the FS about this, and try to get permission to use some kind of FS-approved cleaning agent or technique that works better than water. In the meantime, I will continue to scrub with water whenever I get time.

Unfortunately, this month I have commitments on every Saturday, and am supposed to be training on Sundays. Fridays at 4:30pm or so might be best for me. Anyone with any time available to donate should message me and I will attempt to coordinate.


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By Dan Mottinger
Jun 6, 2006
Me on the Summit of Castleton

Tom Hanson wrote:
I was back to The Projects Wall at Castlewood this last weekend and all of the paint has been removed. Much thanks to those responsible for the clean up!

Tom, I was in contact with someone who posted on this site a bit back (Luc?) about cleaning that up--I'm not sure if he made it there or not. Thanks for the both the Projects and Happy Hour clean up!


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By Lee Smith
Jun 8, 2006
You can love your rope but you can't "LOVE" your rope! <br />(Back by Popular Demand.  There you are Mom) <br /> <br />

Hey Everybody,

I am going to go to Happy Hour for some more clean-up efforts on Sat. morning (June 10). My plan is to head up very early so I can take advantage of the early morning cool weather. I am hoping to be there for most of the day. Anyone who wants to join me early or later please feel free to come on up to the Crag.

Lee


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