Half Rope Tips – Asking for Help

Hello All

So I’ve recently purchased myself a new pair of half ropes. As my climbing becomes more adventurous I’ve decided that it’s a good idea for me to learn how to use half rope techniques properly. I’m hoping some of the more experienced climbers than I on this site will be able to give me some real world tips or tricks to help me manage them better.

I’ve only had the chance to take them out one day so far, so I’m very new into the process of figuring out how to use them best. I’m confident that I will get better at using them to reduce rope drag increase my safety factor and link pitches as I use them more, and picturing how the two ropes will run becomes more intuitive to me. What I’m hoping to get help with here is some smarter things I can do to manage the ropes at the belays.

The two things that I’ve noticed (obviously) that are more complicated now are lead belaying and keeping the ropes neat and untangled at the belays. So:

Q1: How do you handle the ropes when belaying? I found it difficult to feed out rope on one while taking in slack on the other. Basically, how I handled it was to keep both ropes in my break hand at all times (again obvious) but I really only felt capable of feeding out or taking in one rope at a time. This worked fine but I felt my response time to my climber’s movements were much slower. Any tips?

Q2: What do you do to keep the ropes managed at the belays? The day I used them I tried two different techniques for this, keeping the ropes separate, or treating them as one rope. Treating the two ropes as one came off as a much easier way to keep them from tangling as long as both ropes are being pulled in and feed out at the same rate, but this turned into a minor mess when climbing with two seconds. I also tried keeping the ropes in separate neat coils, but at a semi-hanging belay I felt unable to move with ropes draped over each foot that again turned into a minor mess as the two seconds climbed to the belay and rope ends were swapped (as I was swapping leads with one of the other climbers). Again, any tips?

P.S. Advice like “YER GONNA DIE!” is probably not going to be very helpful but if that’s all you have to add, have at it :)

Thanks,

Kevin

Kingk wrote: Q1: How do you handle the ropes when belaying? I found it difficult to feed out rope on one while taking in slack on the other. Basically, how I handled it was to keep both ropes in my break hand at all times (again obvious) but I really only felt capable of feeding out or taking in one rope at a time. This worked fine but I felt my response time to my climber’s movements were much slower. Any tips?

I agree with John's comments about how to keep twists out of the rope.

I belay palm-up, not palm-down, and I keep the index finger of both hands between the ropes. With this basic orientation, it takes only a little practice to simultaneously feed out one rope while taking in the other. The non-brake hand pumps slack in the rope to be fed while the brake hand takes in the other rope. One of these ropes will be pinched between thumb and index finger and the other will be pinched between index finger and middle finger during these operations.

Libby Peters seems to be able to do this palm-down but it has never worked well for me. See ukclimbing.com/articles/pag… .

Alternatively, you can use the non-brake hand for all operations, pumping slack out as usual and then reaching across the brake hand to take slack in on the other strand. A little awkward, but still effective, and it works, perhaps even more awkwardly, with the brake hand palm-down.

You didn't ask about belay devices, but the best solution is to get Climbing Technology's Alpine Up, which makes it easier to perform the slack-handling motions without locking up the device while providing assisted locking. With this device you can belay palm-up without worrying about decreased braking effectiveness.

Neither the Mammut Smart Alpine nor the Edelrid Mega or Micro Jul perform well with simultaneous rope motions in opposite directions, both being more prone than the Alpine Up to accidental locking. The alternative belaying method mentioned above is mandatory for them in most situations.

It turns out to be a little trickier than you might think detect which rope has to be paid out and which rope taken in and respond quickly. The trick is to watch the ropes in front of you, not the climber, and respond to the changes in slack you see there.

Kingk wrote: Q2: What do you do to keep the ropes managed at the belays?

I almost never separate the ropes once I've left the ground. If the same person is going to lead multiple pitches, it is best to re-pile or re-stack the ropes at the belay. The tricks for turning piles or stacks over fail enough of the time to make them not worth it, at least in my experience.

Thank you both for the responses.

John, yes, I believe waiting to have the seconds tie in would have been helpful (especially considering how new ropes like to pigtail). As for the leader not twisting the ropes, that is a work I progress. It’s harder than it looks for sure, but I feel I was showing significant improvement after a few pitches.

rgold wrote: With this basic orientation, it takes only a little practice to simultaneously feed out one rope while taking in the other. The non-brake hand pumps slack in the rope to be fed while the brake hand takes in the other rope.

rgold, I am going to have to give this technique a better shot. I tried to do exactly that but I think your comment on how tricky it can be to detect which rope needs what action may have added to my downfall in controlling the ropes smoothly. Also thank you for the Alpine Up suggestion. I was (and usually do) using an ATC. I remember looking into the Click Up a few months back and decided it didn’t seem to give me any function that I couldn’t’ achieve with my ATC or GriGri but with two lines I can see some advantage to it.

Another thing I do is to anticipate the hand actions that will be required. For instance, if the leader pulls up and clips red, then I know I'll be paying out blue and taking in red for the next few moves, and I'm ready for that, in terms of which strands I'm pinching, a moment before I have to do it.

On long multipitch routes, I've found Metolius rope hooks to be very useful for rope management when there aren't good ledges to pile the ropes on. The hooks are just barely big enough to hold a pair of 60m 8.5's, and they are better than flaking the rope over a tie-in, because with the hook you can lift strands off the hook and drop them before they have a chance to capture other stands and initiate a tangle. With flaking over a tie-in, you have to pull the loops off the tie-in, and they'll tangle unless you graduate the loop lengths, something I just can't seem to do consistently and effectively while belaying up the second.

What's people's experience with 60m vs 70m half ropes? it is worth it to get 70's?

I don't have experience with 70's but I'd say no. One of the biggest drawbacks of half ropes is weight and bulk, and and extra 20 meters is going to make that worse. You can already rappel 200 feet with the 60's, and they are plenty long enough for almost all leads. Unless you have some very unusual need to do extremely long pitches, I think the extra length is a net loss.

Murdo wrote:What's people's experience with 60m vs 70m half ropes? it is worth it to get 70's?

Depends on what you're using them for: if you're using them for ice, they are well worth it, rock not so much.

I find the advantages of half ropes not worth it and I just clip them as twins most of the time. It is far easier to lead on twins than halfs. With that said, when I do use them as halfs I always try to keep one color on one side and the other. It just takes practice. When you reach to clip a rope, look down at the ropes to see if what you are about to do is going to twist the ropes or not. In short it just takes time. You may want to start out using them as twins rather than halfs and then switch to halfs later on if you want. That will make the learning curve a bit less steep.

As far as impact force goes, IMO, I dont really care if the ropes are not rated as twins. Most 8.xmm half ropes would probably meet the UIAA cert for a twin if the manufacturer wanted to pay the money. I have lobbed big air time on half ropes clipped as twins that were not rated as twins and the fall was fine. The downside is of course that you want to be sure your gear is solid or the increased force could rip it. So you may want to choose a sport route or routes with good gear if you are going to clip them as twins.

As far as belaying goes, I have no problem using the palm-down method for belaying with twins or halfs. IMO climbers should always avoid the palm-up method, but that is my personal opinion. Anyway, it helps if the leader calls out what color he intends to clip. That will give the belayer more time to pull the correct strand out. Regardless of what you do NEVER take your hand off one of the strands of rope to manage the other strand. Both strands must be positively controlled at all times. Using twins instead of halfs will make this easier.

I love climbing on double ropes.
When having only marginal or questionable gear, or when route wanders, I only clip one rope. On bolts I use them like twins. In an alpine setting you can easily lose one rope which could be aweful when using a single rope.

Regarding belay devices, I mostly handle the doubles with a mega jul. Works great. If you hold the device open using the thumb loop, it won´t lock up unintentionally.

Murdo wrote:What's people's experience with 60m vs 70m half ropes? it is worth it to get 70's?

i have 70m 8.4's doubles for rock...besides my personal use of linking pitches i cant say i recommend the extra weight. Its come in handy some times but if your doing more alpine stuff stick to 60's. Today i'd go with 7.8-8.0's for doubles, though climbing as three depending on your seconds might want beefier. My 8.4's have lasted over five years now on granite.

also with doubles stacking with really large loops while belaying helps keep the tangles out.