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Gym closures for comps
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By Kid Icarus
Jan 19, 2011
Self Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man

Joe Virtanen wrote:
Gonna go ahead and say that Kate could have handled that better.


Is that a level II certified opinion?


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By slim
Administrator
Jan 19, 2011
tomato, tomotto, kill mike amato.

i just want to know, what is on a level II test? i've never seen that as a category on jeopardy, or in trivial pursuit. how would one go about studying for it?


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By JWong
From Los Angeles, California
Jan 19, 2011

From the USAC website:

www.usacsetting.net/applications/USAC%20Routesetting%20Certi>>>


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By Joe Virtanen
From Asheville, NC
Jan 19, 2011
Pit BBQ

Kid Icarus wrote:
Is that a level II certified opinion?


Actually, Kid, funny you should mention. I'm one of the few level II certified opinion formers in the country.


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By Monomaniac
Administrator
From Morrison, CO
Jan 19, 2011
Insurrection, 5.14c.  Photo Adam Sanders.

KateS wrote:
There were over 100 volunteers that stepped up to make it happen the days leading up to the competition, and the day of the Regional Competition. Our gym says,"Thank you!!!" by granting those people with a free membership for a month



KateS wrote:
There were over 100 volunteers that stepped up to make it happen the days leading up to the competition, and the day of the Regional Competition. Our gym says,"Thank you!!!" by granting those people with a free membership for a month.... Sincerely, Kate Sabo - Operations Manager of RockSport (Married to Dustin Sabo, the Nationally Certified Level II Setter and whose 9 year old daughter Gwen Sabo qualified to goto Nationals during that Regional Competition that was referenced!)


So daddy does the route setting for Gwen's comp, and mommy pays all the judges and officials? That sounds fair.


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By J.J
Jan 19, 2011

I want to know what is taught at the level 2 routesetting clinic.


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By P LaDouche
From CO
Jan 19, 2011

I want to be a Nationally Certified Level II Setter. Is there a special school to learn how to sandwich plywood between T-nuts and chunks of plastic? Will I be able to acheive a Level III after a certain amount of time?


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By J.J
Jan 19, 2011

P LaDouche wrote:
I want to be a Nationally Certified Level II Setter. Is there a special school to learn how to sandwich plywood between T-nuts and chunks of plastic? Will I be able to acheive a Level III after a certain amount of time?

Looks like you can make it all the way to Level 4 Chief Setter


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By Dustin Sabo
Jan 19, 2011

Ok, so it has been made abundantly clear to me that all of you that are talking about setting and gym management haven't done either. On the other hand My wife and I have been in this industry for a very long time. Just to give you a little history on myself I have been setting for the past 15 years and have a level 2 regional certification for setting (if you don't know what that means you might want to educate yourself before you sound like a moron). I have been the Head Setter at Rocksport for the past 4 years. I have also set for Rocknasium, The Front(the old one) in Utah, and a few others were I was just helping them put up some routes and boulder problems. I have set for numerous comps and I'm sure that I have a good idea as to what is involved in hosting them. Ever since Kate has been managing the gym sales have gone up, we have more members than ever before, every comp has gotten rave reviews, and we have acquired more holds and bouldering pads. Not to mention that the overall quality of the gym has improved immensely. I feel like we (rocksport staff) have tried to make everybody happy but we all know that is impossible and on that note I'm not going to try. If your angry that we closed for a comp or that you think that we set too slow or whatever else you may think I just want you to know we are doing are best and we will continue to do what we do. So to all those jackass's with your lazy comments your words fall on def ears. Maybe next time you can man up and join the climbing community instead of throw rocks from afar. In fact I would prefer that everyone that made negative comments about the staff to come in for a refund and we hope to never see you in the gym again, good riddance to bad rubbish.


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By Joe Virtanen
From Asheville, NC
Jan 19, 2011
Pit BBQ

Dustin Sabo wrote:
Ok, so it has been made abundantly clear to me that all of you that are talking about setting and gym management haven't done either. On the other hand My wife and I have been in this industry for a very long time. Just to give you a little history on myself I have been setting for the past 15 years and have a level 2 regional certification for setting (if you don't know what that means you might want to educate yourself before you sound like a moron). I have been the Head Setter at Rocksport for the past 4 years. I have also set for Rocknasium, The Front(the old one) in Utah, and a few others were I was just helping them put up some routes and boulder problems. I have set for numerous comps and I'm sure that I have a good idea as to what is involved in hosting them. Ever since Kate has been managing the gym sales have gone up, we have more members than ever before, every comp has gotten rave reviews, and we have acquired more holds and bouldering pads. Not to mention that the overall quality of the gym has improved immensely. I feel like we (rocksport staff) have tried to make everybody happy but we all know that is impossible and on that note I'm not going to try. If your angry that we closed for a comp or that you think that we set too slow or whatever else you may think I just want you to know we are doing are best and we will continue to do what we do. So to all those jackass's with your lazy comments your words fall on def ears. Maybe next time you can man up and join the climbing community instead of throw rocks from afar. In fact I would prefer that everyone that made negative comments about the staff to come in for a refund and we hope to never see you in the gym again, good riddance to bad rubbish.


As an independent, outside observer, I'd just like to recommend that you drop this and call it a night. You gain not a thing from this.


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By Tyler Scheer
From Boulder. CO
Jan 19, 2011

Huh, this seems like a bunch of unfounded whining. So... you showed up to the gym, they were closed, and your first recourse is to badmouth an entire gym? Good show, guys.

It's nice that there is such a large, vocal audience to agree with itself when complaining about something as trivial as your gym being closed for a few days. Do you cry this much when you're inconvenienced by roadwork?

So this gym decides to host a regional comp for kids, and you can't let off a little steam after work? Man, your life just got really crappy, really fast. This kind of thing is normal for smaller gyms, with limited setting staff. Your options are to either not have a comp, and cut a great experience out of the climbing life of these kids, or to have to suffer through a few days without your fingers on some holds. Get over yourselves. Pools shut down for maintenance, weight gyms close for upkeep, tennis centers get shut down for tournaments. If you can't entertain yourself for a few days without climbing, then I feel pretty sorry for you.

To Dustin and Kate, I'm glad you guys were willing to put in the insane amount of work that comes with a competition, to give the region's kids a place to have a great experience.


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By bergbryce
From South Lake Tahoe, CA
Jan 20, 2011

So comps pretty much suck for everyone involved, aside from the lil' pukes participatin'?


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By LeeAB
Administrator
From ABQ, NM
Jan 20, 2011
Once we landed we headed to Font to find a place to stay for the night before doing a day of wine tasting and heading to Buoux.

KateS wrote:
We are one of the few gyms in the country that have a Level II certified route setter on staff. We also REQUIRE any setter to take classes AND pass a test before they pick up an impactor! For the rest of you, ask your gym what their standard is! All my setters are burnt out after ABS and SCS )


So you're saying that of the 100 or so route setters that are level II certified or higher, they all work in only a few gyms in the country. I admit after looking through the list several of those on it are not currently active, but...

The gym I work at in ABQ has a Level 4 and a Level 3 (what ever that really means) setter on staff and we train all incoming setters. We have great setters on staff that could care less about getting the certifications because unless you really want to set at a national level they are not necessary. The cert. teaches you about setting routes and problems for competitions not setting stuff that is fun to climb.

As far as putting the gym back together, we put in 3-4 days of setting the week (as opposed to the usual 2 days a week) after the competitions that we do and still get complaints but at least we are trying and not letting the staff get away with saying well, I'm tired so I'm not going to do my job.


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By Brent Butcher
Jan 20, 2011
route photo

Level 2, level 3, level 4, Numbers are a bunch of B.S! You can set routes for years and that still won't make you a "great" "good" whatever you want to call it, route setter. The gym where I work, we have no certified route setters but we have a total of 25 years experience. We still make "weird" or "unpopular" routes it is part of the game.

As to comment on the thread title, we do not close our gym down. We give ourselves 1-2 weeks to strip and reset the routes, while also warning possible gym competitors that they cannot climb these routes. My gym is no ordinary gym, so it takes us a while to set routes, thus the reason for 1-2 weeks.


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By J. Albers
From Colorado
Jan 20, 2011
Bucky

Will S wrote:
Closing for comps sucks my sack. I don't pay >$50/mo to show up to train and not be able to train. At a minimum, if I show up and it's closed for comp setting I want 25% of my monthly fee refunded. Closely related...setting during the open hours (period...whether comp routes or regular new stuff) also blows...at a minimum get that shit done during the day so when the after-work crowd shows up you don't have half a wall closed off while Sparky McSprayalot sets new routes/problems...tell Sparky to show up to work at 9am instead of 4pm and serve you clientele. More gym BS: Slacklines in the middle of the gym. Yeah, GREAT idea. Now I have to wait for Johnny Toecheese to fall off the f$%&ing thing before I can cross the gym, and get to duck under the thing to do so...and as an addded bonus, when it's up, it occludes 10+ boulderprobs...hope that's not where you want to run 4x4s or have a problem you're working.


Thank you!! Pretty much sums it up....


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By drpw
Jan 20, 2011

Dustin Sabo wrote:
In fact I would prefer that everyone that made negative comments about the staff to come in for a refund and we hope to never see you in the gym again, good riddance to bad rubbish.


You just made the biggest little mistake of your life pal. Too bad being a Level 2 route setter doesn't make you a competent business person.


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By J.J
Jan 20, 2011

Dustin Sabo wrote:
Just to give you a little history on myself I have been setting for the past 15 years and have a level 2 regional certification for setting (if you don't know what that means you might want to educate yourself before you sound like a moron). I have been the Head Setter at Rocksport for the past 4 years. I have also set for Rocknasium, The Front(the old one) in Utah, and a few others were I was just helping them put up some routes and boulder problems. I have set for numerous comps and I'm sure that I have a good idea as to what is involved in hosting them.

This just makes me so happy! :) Thank you for making my day! I'm now seriously considering pursuing a career as a setter.
Dustin Sabo wrote:
So to all those jackass's with your lazy comments your words fall on def ears. Maybe next time you can man up and join the climbing community instead of throw rocks from afar.

Which comments specifically are you mad about? Are you mad at me? :/


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By iceman777
From Colorado Springs
Jan 20, 2011
0

This is one reason why I'd rather stand on my head and pack my butthole with thumbtacks than climb in a gym.

I guess they have there place but I've never been able to see it .


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By SKI
From Portlandia, OR
Jan 20, 2011
Descending the Underhill Couloir

Hey Scott!

Dude, you got some serious Level II Certified anger dude, what's with the email?

"Dustin Sabo at Mountain Project to me
show details Jan 18 (1 day ago)


Images are not displayed.
Display images below - Always display images from postmaster@mountainproject.com

You SUCK!!! Yes I honestly think you totally SUCK!! You are the worst kind of person. How about you stop hiding in the shadows and come chat with me on the subject! I would love the opportunity to express how I truly feel strait to your face. "

P.S.
A "strait" is a narrow passageway connecting two bodies of water. Maybe you meant straight?

"(if you don't know what that means you might want to educate yourself before you sound like a moron)."

We'll chat bud- and it's going to start with me bringing this email in to Rocksport. WE ARE YOUR CLOSE-KNIT CLIMBING COMMUNITY. Take what people here are saying and recommend changes. Letting this fall on deaf ears will ruin you man- and spurning the rest of us, your community, isn't going to help either. Especially here in the Biggest Little City.


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By Kid Icarus
Jan 20, 2011
Self Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man

SKI wrote:
Hey Scott! Dude, you got some serious Level II Certified anger dude, what's with the email? "Dustin Sabo at Mountain Project to me show details Jan 18 (1 day ago) Images are not displayed. Display images below - Always display images from postmaster@mountainproject.com You SUCK!!! Yes I honestly think you totally SUCK!! You are the worst kind of person. How about you stop hiding in the shadows and come chat with me on the subject! I would love the opportunity to express how I truly feel strait to your face. " P.S. A "strait" is a narrow passageway connecting two bodies of water. Maybe you meant straight? "(if you don't know what that means you might want to educate yourself before you sound like a moron)." We'll chat bud- and it's going to start with me bringing this email in to Rocksport. WE ARE YOUR CLOSE-KNIT CLIMBING COMMUNITY. Take what people here are saying and recommend changes. Letting this fall on deaf ears will ruin you man- and spurning the rest of us, your community, isn't going to help either. Especially here in the Biggest Little City.


Their customers make one suggestion of "please reset faster" and now they are public enemy number one? Makes me glad I live close to Hi Alt. Way to go on the personal attacks and represent your business correspondence in a professional manner.


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By Andy Librande
From Denver, CO
Jan 20, 2011
Me in the Buddha Cave at crumblewood a while ago.

SKI wrote:
"Dustin Sabo You SUCK!!! Yes I honestly think you totally SUCK!! You are the worst kind of person. How about you stop hiding in the shadows and come chat with me on the subject! I would love the opportunity to express how I truly feel strait to your face. "



This is the perfect example of how many business owners have no social media sense.

Regardless of how the original poster may have been ranting over something pretty minor in the big picture, the response by Dustin and Kate are about as classic as they can be.

While I firmly believe that the customer is not always right, trying to pick fights with them over a few minor comments on a public forum is the perfect example of how your ego will hurt your business.


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By Andrew Gram
Administrator
From Salt Lake City, UT
Jan 20, 2011
Andrew Gram

A suggestion to the gym owners from someone who has owned a business in the past and who has no dog in this fight.

Don't ever post while you are angry - you will regret it. Be professional when you write as a representative of your business - use the spell checker, use paragraphs, use proper punctuation and avoid exclamation marks, and avoid kitschy phrases like "on the other hand", "for your information", "educate yourself", etc.

If a customer rants about your gym on a climbing site, and the complaints about your gym in this thread are really pretty mild by internet standards, it'll be forgotten almost immediately. If you as a gym owner start insulting customers, this won't die anytime soon and will likely have a negative impact on your business. If you as a gym owner take the time to craft a professional sounding response explaining why things happen the way they do or even enter into a constructive professional dialog, you will have created great free advertising for your business.


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By Scott McMahon
From Boulder, CO
Jan 20, 2011
Bocan

While I probably wouldn't be overly upset, I can agree with some of the frustration posted. In this economy and in general where the cost of living far exceeds the growth of wages, why wouldn't you be upset if your gym closes for several days? You ARE paying for those days.

I think that's a problem with some businesses that expect customers to eat costs as a price of using their services. I think if you are paying for a service you should be able to recieve the full terms of that service.

However I do concede that these comps probably help me in the long run by creating better gyms and new style of holds etc.


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By Kevin Craig
Jan 20, 2011
KC on Fields (medium).  Photo (c) Doug Shepherd

First, I'd like to thank everyone. This is some seriously funny and entertaining stuff! Though it is a bit macabre; kind of like watching a train wreck in progress.

Second, I'd like to say that as "interesting" as Denver/Boulder can be, I am happy as hell that I don't live in Reno with gym owners like this.

It's hard to tell whether Kate/Dustin are worse as "business-people" or as "Little League parents." You guys are getting some great, free advice here. Disconnect the ego and take heed.

Members who complain should be given a refund for the days the gym is closed or have their account credited for those number of days. Wouldn't hurt to give them some other "Thank you for your patience" as well, instead of the very public "F you" that they've been given here.

I know it's hard to remember it right now, what with little Gwen's impending fame and endorsement contracts dazzling your vision, but I'd bet most your long-term business is from established adult climbers, not from a bunch of kids, most of whom will move on to soccer, snowboarding and Playstation in a year or two. The majority of these folks couldn't give a crap about a kids comp but DO give a very large crap about missing several days of climbing/training. You need to maintain their goodwill, not call them a bunch of rubbish or worse. I'm sure there are other existing or prospective businesses that would be happy to have your "rubbish."


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By Kid Icarus
Jan 20, 2011
Self Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man

Kevin Craig wrote:
First, I'd like to thank everyone. This is some seriously funny and entertaining stuff! Though it is a bit macabre; kind of like watching a train wreck in progress. Second, I'd like to say that as "interesting" as Denver/Boulder can be, I am happy as hell that I don't live in Reno with gym owners like this. It's hard to tell whether Kate/Dustin are worse as "business-people" or as "Little League parents." You guys are getting some great, free advice here. Disconnect the ego and take heed. Members who complain should be given a refund for the days the gym is closed or have their account credited for those number of days. Wouldn't hurt to give them some other "Thank you for your patience" as well, instead of the very public "F you" that they've been given here. I know it's hard to remember it right now, what with little Gwen's impending fame and endorsement contracts dazzling your vision, but I'd bet most your long-term business is from established adult climbers, not from a bunch of kids, most of whom will move on to soccer, snowboarding and Playstation in a year or two. The majority of these folks couldn't give a crap about a kids comp but DO give a very large crap about missing several days of climbing/training. You need to maintain their goodwill, not call them a bunch of rubbish or worse. I'm sure there are other existing or prospective businesses that would be happy to have your "rubbish."

5***** post.

Holding all the cards in Reno they can say what they want without many being bold enough to openly say otherwise. What happens though if a newer facility opens up? All things being equal, the climbers who they alienated with their "the customer is always wrong" mentality are going to vote with their feet.


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