Gunks Rock Fall

Yesterday afternoon my partner and I were racking up for the first pitch of three doves on the right side of the large block. We started hearing frantic rock calls from a climbing party that was on Red Pillar. You could tell right away these were more than your usual rock calls and it was going to be a big rock fall. We took off down into the woods as far as we could get down in the 10 seconds we had to react before a refrigerator size block came down about 15 feet from where we had been standing close the to the left start of three doves. The rock fall continued down stopping only 20 feet short of the carriage road and coming dangerously close to a party of 3 that were making their way up the stairs to the Arrow wall.

I'm posting this for 2 reasons. First if you were the party on Red Pillar I would like to know about what happened and what caused the rock fall. Not looking to blame anyone just curious about what happened.

Second just a reminder to everyone of something I am just as guilty of as anyone else. We tend to treat the base of the cliffs as a hangout area. A place to eat between climbs, put a hammock up, or even where we bring our kids and dogs for the day to hang out. This is a sobering reminder that even in the Gunks where the rock quality is usually very good we need to be alert all the time. Those of you who were out yesterday know that yesterday was one of the busiest days of the year and the Arrow wall as usual was one of the busiest areas. I am extremely thankful and somewhat in disbelief that no one was injured or killed.

Be safe out there.

I don't know anything about what happened, but running down into the woods may not be the best strategy for getting out of the way of both big and small rockfalls. Things tend to bounce off the cliff and land further out from the base, and as you noticed the bigger stuff keeps going.

Running along the cliff base but away from the rockfall location is probably a higher-percentage bet, although there are no guarantees about any of the options. A problem is that if you just hear "rock!" it may not be clear which direction along the base to run. I might add that you have under four seconds, not ten seconds, to get out of the way of a falling rock at the Trapps.

This is the second or third time in the last few years that people on the ground have been bombarded by serious rockfall that could have killed someone. The previous rockfalls, and probably this one too, were initiated by climbers.

rgold wrote:I don't know anything about what happened, but running down into the woods may not be the best strategy for getting out of the way of both big and small rockfalls. Things tend to bounce off the cliff and land further out from the base, and as you noticed the bigger stuff keeps going. Running along the cliff base but away from the rockfall location is probably a higher-percentage bet, although there are no guarantees about any of the options. A problem is that if you just hear "rock!" it may not be clear which direction along the base to run. I might add that you have under four seconds, not ten seconds, to get out of the way of a falling rock at the Trapps. This is the second or third time in the last few years that people on the ground have been bombarded by serious rockfall that could have killed someone. The previous rockfalls, and probably this one too, were initiated by climbers.

While I agree about running down the hill, that was exactly the problem. I wasn't sure where it was coming from so I ran away and down from the direction I thought I heard the rock coming from. I don't know the exact time frame from when we heard rock to when the rock hit the cliff base , but needless to say it happened a lot quicker then I would have liked.

mnjsan wrote: While I agree about running down the hill, that was exactly the problem. I wasn't sure where it was coming from so I ran away and down from the direction I thought I heard the rock coming from. I don't know the exact time frame from when we heard rock to when the rock hit the cliff base , but needless to say it happened a lot quicker then I would have liked.

In American Fork Canyon we frequently have mountain goats wandering around on the unstable talus and choss above the climbing cliffs. Since it's limestone and tends to be steep most of the goat induced rockfall tends to fall out from the cliff, so the technique is to run *in* to the base of the cliff.
Another one of those things that have no absolutes and are situation dependent, but yes, in general, better to run along the cliff rather than down the talus.

Marc801 wrote: In American Fork Canyon we frequently have mountain goats wandering around on the unstable talus and choss above the climbing cliffs.

Funny I was climbing a famous low-altitude limestone peak in France a few weeks ago, and got bombed by rocks from high above -- and successfully used the hug-the-wall strategy.

I figured out that there couldn't be climbers where the rock was coming from. No recent rain or snow, so I was surprised that I could have been so unlucky to be around when some wind must have shifted to dislodge them.

Next day I asked an experienced local-France climber, and he said, probably goats.

Ken

Yikes glad you are all ok!

And this could also serve as a reminder to wear your helmet at the bottom, even if you're done. Technically, we should all wear them until we're at least to the carriage road, for all the explanations previously posted (about rock often bouncing away from the cliff). And it's not just rock - dropped cams, nuts, carabiners hurt too. People who wear no helmets - I don't know what to say to that.

Just up there the weekend before last. Also interested in knowing what happened. The only rock that large that I recall was at the top out of the last pitch. Glad to hear everyone was okay.

Kevin Heckeler wrote:And this could also serve as a reminder to wear your helmet at the bottom, even if you're done. Technically, we should all wear them until we're at least to the carriage road

At the Gunks you should have it on the minute you get near to Horseman. If you take it off after finishing a route you really should just leave it at home unless you topped out. All of my close calls there were shit coming down while not even climbing.

People up there looking for a place to rap on the edge of the cliff is dangerous as hell, unfortunately the NE ethics police think people should be up there wandering around looking for a rap or "walking" down a mega greasy downclimb.

What are the "mega-greasy downclimbs" you are referring to, T-Ro?

As for the so-called ethics police---I have yet to see a uniformed officer directing traffic along rock-filled ledges at the crag. But I can assure you that those of us who have argued for less rappelling can practically guarantee that one of the results would have been a safer environment for everyone.

Not to worry though, it is clear that the crag, and the climbing population in general, is headed in another direction.

Keith Meister wrote:Just up there the weekend before last. Also interested in knowing what happened. The only rock that large that I recall was at the top out of the last pitch. Glad to hear everyone was okay.

The general consensus from all of us near the rock fall was that a rock that big must have come from the GT but I've never climbed red pillar and can't say for sure.

Kevin Heckeler wrote:And this could also serve as a reminder to wear your helmet at the bottom, even if you're done. Technically, we should all wear them until we're at least to the carriage road, for all the explanations previously posted (about rock often bouncing away from the cliff). And it's not just rock - dropped cams, nuts, carabiners hurt too. People who wear no helmets - I don't know what to say to that.

I completely agree. I'm guilty of not always having a hemet on but after this weekend I'm going to keep it on. A helmet wouldn't have protected against the big rock fall but there was plenty of smaller rock that came down. Either way it's hard to argue that it is good practice to keep your helmet on at all times.

Subject to confirmation by Gunks "locals", if the block did fall off the GT Ledge around Red Pillar, impact is in less than 3 seconds since I believe the Ledge is between 80 and 100 feet from the base there. Scary as hell.

rgold wrote:What are the "mega-greasy downclimbs" you are referring to, T-Ro? As for the so-called ethics police---I have yet to see a uniformed officer directing traffic along rock-filled ledges at the crag. But I can assure you that those of us who have argued for less rappelling can practically guarantee that one of the results would have been a safer environment for everyone. Not to worry though, it is clear that the crag, and the climbing population in general, is headed in another direction.

I can think of one off hand, cant say I've ever used more than one and I certainly didnt mention multiple "downclimbs". I've seen plenty of groups wandering up top, lost and looking for a way down. Having lost out of towners on the top off the cliff wandering around(while kicking small rocks off the top) looking for anchors, old tat or some greasy, leaf covered "downclimb" is probably not the best management plan.

At least there have been improvements as far as rap anchors go but IMHO until there is a rap anchor within a reasonable distance(50'?) from every climb you will have folks rapping off trees on dirty sections of rock which will result in a constant shower of rocks coming down.

Its funny to me how the NE rap anchor police seem to think that the crags here are any different then the rest of the world, the world that puts anchors on top of just about every climb.

I'm new to the area and was climbing without a helmet. A guy stopped and gave me a LONG lecture about how I should have one. I said I was new to the area and would pick 1 up for next time. He said I should stop now. I said NO. He then promptly went up top and started throwing rocks down on me, just to prove his point. I'm sorry, but the NE folks have EARNED this crappy reputation IMO.

sara pax wrote: Last weekend, two friends of mine were climbing Ursula (hard, experienced climbers, but new trad leaders). As they were leading up the second pitch they heard rope as a rope came down and hit the leader. The belay yelled up to them to stop, but they rapped anyway, almost hitting the leader again and then crowding the belay ledge and getting in the belayers way. Is this something that should be happening on every climb? Why can't people just learn where the rap stations are before heading up the cliff? At any big cliff you wouldn't start up without knowing your decent options.

you cant fix stupid. I've seen that happen multiple times, only at the Gunks though.

edit- so either that party had just finished that same route(which probably means they were getting crowded not your friends) or they were up top wandering around looking for a way down. either way, its the Gunks, wear your helmet all day!

Luckily at the Gunks, these large rock falls are very isolated incidents. Kind of a freak thing.

I was on Andrew when I heard the rockfall. The rockfall was deafening and the screams of "rock" were incredibly loud, but not as loud as the actual fall. Super freaky.

I - like the OP - would like to know which block fell. There was one at the top of the 2nd pitch of the Red Pillar at the GT ledge that sat right before the tree anchor. For years, I've been wondering when that thing was going to go.

At the very least, people responded in a way that warned others. It was an incredibly busy weekend at the Gunks and the fact that no one was hurt was amazing. I've almost been hit by rocks over by Gelsa more times than I care to discuss because people don't yell "rock."

I too was wondering if this was the big block sitting on the GT Ledge where Red Pillar pitch one finishes. If it truly was refirgerator-sized it is hard to imagine many other candidates. I'll be interested to hear the answer.

As for rap anchors, I am not aware that other trad, multipitch areas all have "anchors atop every climb." This may be true at single-pitch trad areas like Indian Creek or at most sport areas, but it isn't true in any of the multipitch trad areas I've been to across the United States.

I think this talk of "rap anchor police" will surprise the old timers who dislike the proliferation of rap anchors in the Gunks but have seen their cries echo uselessly into the wind. The climbing community voted with their feet on this issue a long time ago and there are probably far too many rap anchors, not too few. Personally I am not arguing in favor of doing away with them but I think even (or perhaps especially) if you are new to the Gunks it is your responsibility before you embark on a multi-pitch climb to figure out a plan for how you are going to descend. It really isn't that complicated especially with the new apps, and with climbers all around, available to answer your questions.

That helmet story, while ridiculous(!), seems like an outlier to me. I see people climbing without helmets all the time.

T Roper wrote: you cant fix stupid. I've seen that happen multiple times, only at the Gunks though. edit- so either that party had just finished that same route(which probably means they were getting crowded not your friends) or they were up top wandering around looking for a way down. either way, its the Gunks, wear your helmet all day!

I witnessed ropes thrown down on a leader twice. Once the party above pulled their rope back up. The next time the leader pulled the rappelling party's rope. Both times the parties above just disappeared.

I like the saying "common sense isn't so common"

Party ahead of us on Alphonse yesterday had rapped and tried to start pulling the rope right when I was coming through. Yelled down and was totally in their line of vision. You really cannot fix stupid