GriGri II for Top Rope Soloing

Disclaimer:
1) I know that Petzl does not endorse using the GriGri II for top rope soloing nor is top rope soloing its intended purpose.
2) I am familiar and experienced with the underlying principles and risks of top rope soloing with devices other than the GriGri II.
3) I will not be lead soloing with the GriGri II if I were to purchase it. I would only be top rope soloing.
4) I am specifically asking about the new GriGri II. Not the old GriGri nor any other devices which I know have been covered ad nauseum.
5) I will not hold any of you accountable if I am maimed or killed. I am an independent thinker who can draw my own conclusions based on what I read here.

So, that said, has anyone had a chance to test out the new GriGri II for top rope soloing? If so, what was your experience? How smoothly did it feed? Were any modifications necessary (like the death mod for the previous generation)? How well did it catch a fall? Was a chest harness or something similar necessary for it to function well? Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

If TRing is all you want to solo. Why not go with the Mini-Traxion method?

Herb wrote:If TRing is all you want to solo. Why not go with the Mini-Traxion method?

I have my reasons.

Do you already own the GriGri 2, or are you planning to buy it specifically for this purpose?

I just tried mine in the basement and it felt comparable to the old GriGri for TR-soloing (i.e. feeds like crap and you have to manually take in slack).

If you're considering buying it mainly for TR soloing but want to use it as a belay device here and there I'd strongly recommend getting the Trango Cinch instead. It's a great device, feeds like butter due to its design, and it can be used with a single Mini-Trax backup for a killer TR solo setup (search forum for info on that).

Have fun out there.

Edit: Before you spring from your couch to buy a Cinch at this very instant, read below for the full story on whether or not it's a good idea. (ominous music begins).

DFrench wrote:Do you already own the GriGri 2, or are you planning to buy it specifically for this purpose? I just tried mine in the basement and it felt comparable to the old GriGri for TR-soloing (i.e. feeds like crap and you have to manually take in slack). If you're considering buying it mainly for TR soloing but want to use it as a belay device here and there I'd strongly recommend getting the Trango Cinch instead. It's a great device, feeds like butter due to its design, and it can be used with a single Mini-Trax backup for a killer TR solo setup (search forum for info on that). Have fun out there.

Thanks, that's exactly what I am looking for. I do not yet own the GriGri II, but would like to find something that could safely double as a belay device & top rope solo device. I've read a number of previous posts of yours that advocate the Cinch for just that. Bearing in mind that I will be using either a Mini Traxion or Microcender in tandem with the Cinch (assuming I chose it), how do you feel about some reports that demonstrate that the Cinch breaks when dynamically forced against something like, say, a back-up knot?

Devices like the Camp Lift are way better for top-rope soloing. Feed smoothly, grab quickly, no rope damage from teeth.

Crimp Junkie wrote: Thanks, that's exactly what I am looking for. I do not yet own the GriGri II, but would like to find something that could safely double as a belay device & top rope solo device. I've read a number of previous posts of yours that advocate the Cinch for just that. Bearing in mind that I will be using either a Mini Traxion or Microcender in tandem with the Cinch (assuming I chose it), how do you feel about some reports that demonstrate that the Cinch breaks when dynamically forced against something like, say, a back-up knot?

I STRONGLY disagree that the Cinch is a better TR solo device than a grigri. Yes, it feeds miles better than any version of the grigri. However, it has more likely failure modes and more severe consequences of these modes.

A number of things can cause the cinch to fail to "auto-lock" (I use the term with a bit of tongue-in-cheek here). There is a little tab on the outside. If anything gets in its way, the cam will not engage. I have personally witnessed this when a very, very small piece of fabric got caught under it. Similarly, if there is something blocking the cam from closing at all, it will not engage.

There is no spring to assist the rope into a locking position, and the rope runs straight through the device. This is what causes it to feed so well, but also means that if the cam does not engage you will basically be in free fall. Backup knots are inadequate here, since the device has been shown to fail against a knot.

If you are going to be soloing, get gear that is well established to be effective or else is intended for the purpose. MiniTrax is the standard here. There's a reason for it. The original grigri is decent, but not great. Can't say much about the GG2, since I haven't used it for TR soloing.

Just buy a Ropeman Mk II!

shoo wrote: I STRONGLY disagree that the Cinch is a better TR solo device than a grigri

Shoo, I think your post and others in this thread underscore the fact that there really is no single IDEAL device that is designed for TR soloing AND works smoothly enough to be practical.

It is my opinion that many of the flaws you point out in the Cinch can be just as likely to occur in the GriGri (such as cam/nubs getting caught on things like fabric or the rock).

I do not use any back-up knots below the Cinch. I have a Mini-Trax on a 10 cm sling from my belay loop to an independent strand of rope as a backup. I've logged many pitches and have never weighted my Mini-Trax, not once.

Furthermore, considering the way I TR solo - which I do for exercise and enjoyment, not to push my climbing limits - I feel confident saying that I've never placed forces on the Cinch that are greater than those seen in a free-hanging rappel or, to be extreme, when catching a leader fall. Both of these are published uses of the device and are done WITHOUT a backup.

I think whatever piece of equipment you choose, you should do so because YOU feel confident in its performance. And I hope it goes without saying, use a backup!

DFrench wrote: Shoo, I think your post and others in this thread underscore the fact that there really is no single IDEAL device that is designed for TR soloing AND works smoothly enough to be practical.

Gotta throw in my .02. I love the Petzl microscender/rescuscender for this, very smooth and designed to slip during shock loads, no teeth or narrow edges on the end of it's cam.

I´ve used both and the Grigri 2 wasn´t as good as the old version for feeding with a 10mm rope. I tried modded and un-modded versions of both back to back and gave away the Grigri 2!

Jim

Jim Titt wrote:I´ve used both and the Grigri 2 wasn´t as good as the old version for feeding with a 10mm rope. I tried modded and un-modded versions of both back to back and gave away the Grigri 2! Jim

Thanks Jim, that's exactly the kind of information I'm looking for.

I do it all the time. Top rope soloing, short fixing on el cap, aid soloing. I like the gri gri 2 more than the 1st gen.

I do it all the time. Top rope soloing, short fixing on el cap, aid soloing. I like the gri gri 2 more than the 1st gen.

I'll sell my Cinch (green body, two years old) for 30$ if anyone is interested.

DFrench wrote:Do you already own the GriGri 2, or are you planning to buy it specifically for this purpose? I just tried mine in the basement and it felt comparable to the old GriGri for TR-soloing (i.e. feeds like crap and you have to manually take in slack). If you're considering buying it mainly for TR soloing but want to use it as a belay device here and there I'd strongly recommend getting the Trango Cinch instead. It's a great device, feeds like butter due to its design, and it can be used with a single Mini-Trax backup for a killer TR solo setup (search forum for info on that). Have fun out there.

use the cinch like that you are pushing your luck... horrible beta.

shoo wrote: I STRONGLY disagree that the Cinch is a better TR solo device than a grigri. Yes, it feeds miles better than any version of the grigri. However, it has more likely failure modes and more severe consequences of these modes. A number of things can cause the cinch to fail to "auto-lock" (I use the term with a bit of tongue-in-cheek here). There is a little tab on the outside. If anything gets in its way, the cam will not engage. I have personally witnessed this when a very, very small piece of fabric got caught under it. Similarly, if there is something blocking the cam from closing at all, it will not engage. There is no spring to assist the rope into a locking position, and the rope runs straight through the device. This is what causes it to feed so well, but also means that if the cam does not engage you will basically be in free fall. Backup knots are inadequate here, since the device has been shown to fail against a knot. If you are going to be soloing, get gear that is well established to be effective or else is intended for the purpose. MiniTrax is the standard here. There's a reason for it. The original grigri is decent, but not great. Can't say much about the GG2, since I haven't used it for TR soloing.

Some of the best beta i have seen on the Cinch and best educated. Glad to see some people research before spraying how to hurt yourself..

SAL wrote: Some of the best beta i have seen on the Cinch and best educated. Glad to see some people research before spraying how to hurt yourself..

I suppose the danger of an online forum is that everyone gets to act like an expert.

I think SAL is right to point out that anyone looking to get into TR soloing needs to do their homework on their chosen device to know its short-comings and the limitations of its intended use. But, alas, I think I've polluted the database enough with my Cinch talk for a while.

Sorry for the hi-jack of your thread, OP, but I think you got some relevant responses about the GriGri 2 in there somewhere.

DFrench wrote: I suppose the danger of an online forum is that everyone gets to act like an expert. I think SAL is right to point out that anyone looking to get into TR soloing needs to do their homework on their chosen device to know its short-comings and the limitations of its intended use. But, alas, I think I've polluted the database enough with my Cinch talk for a while. Sorry for the hi-jack of your thread, OP, but I think you got some relevant responses about the GriGri 2 in there somewhere.

Shoo gave great beta.

I spent 2 years working for Trango and going over numberous tests and scenarios. I big wall climb more than anything now and wish the CInch was able to perform as good and be safe. Fact is it doesnt. It can be very dangerous used in the wrong manner so like is posted. Soloing with the Cinch is a bad idea. Backing the CInch up with a knot at any point in time solo or not is a bad idea. If anyone really has more in depth questions feel free to give me a shout. back to the grigriII now...

Edit*** I still use the Cinch all the time. And i have both GriGri's so the CInch surely has its place

DFrench wrote: I suppose the danger of an online forum is that everyone gets to act like an expert

<<Was referring more to myself here.

Shoo has raised valid concerns with the Cinch that are discussed more at length elsewhere on the interweb.

Perhaps because I have moved to Massachusetts, where no single wall exceeds 100 feet, I've come to assume that all TR soloing is done on single pitch routes where the ropes hang in a plumb line from top to bottom. Indeed my outlook borders on denial.

I regret blathering about the Cinch as the go-to device. This is NOT a big-wall setup and as has been pointed out it is questionably safe for my less-than-noteworthy TR solo achievements on the east coast.

Carry on

DFrench wrote:This is NOT a big-wall setup and as has been pointed out it is questionably safe for my less-than-noteworthy TR solo achievements on the east coast.

I think you've been pretty good about mentioning that you use it with a backup device...

I've tried a number of devices for TR soloing and 1 or 2 for lead soloing, and I wouldn't call the Cinch the most dangerous (I reserve that honor for the Petzl Shunt), but after using it a few times I returned to my old setup, both for safety and because I never quite got comfortable with the way the lowering handle works for rappelling. If you're backing the thing up with a Mini-trax, though, I don't see where you'd get in too much trouble. I also dislike the way the Grigri works for TR soloing... wouldn't recommend it.