Graffiti at Devil's Lake

Yesterday afternoon I arrived at the East Rampart around 4 in the afternoon to climb with some friends who had been up there all day. After an hour or so, I noticed that about half way up F4 Ledges there was the word "Possum" written in bright blue on the rock. Here's what I know:

1. My friend said that a guide was there with some kids, and went up there and wrote it on the rock so that the kids would climb toward it.
2. These guides had "Adventure" in their name; she didn't get the full name so I am not going to accuse any particular business. However, I believe they had a giant Hummer with a trailer. EDIT: Hummer people didn't do it.
3. It was written under a small overhang (so rain won't easily wash it off), and it was written with something more harsh than chalk. I spent about 15 minutes pouring water on it and scrubbing it with a steel brush and it did not entirely come off. It is no longer bright and obvious, but it is still there.

Moral of the story: if you know who did this, publicly shame them; if you see them do it again, publicly shame them.

The "possum" on F4 Ledges

I recall that being written up there about a month ago when I was climbing at DL. So, unless this is a perpetual habit with the guide service then your friend might have wrongly assumed the guide did this. I don't think publicly humiliating the guide service or guide is actually necessary. Perhaps a request to not write on the rock would be best.

Please question this 'friend' for verification. Is said friend claimbing to be a witness to this action or on heresay? I just spoke to the owner of the 'hummer and trailor' by phone minutes after reading this post, and he says that the painted word has been up there for over a month. They did climb yesterday with 2 kids, a family of 4, (and even let their rope be used by others who were up there waiting), right by this area, but have nothing to do with this vandalism. Just because their vehicle was in the parking lot and easy to idenfity, is not fair reason to claim they are the guilty party. So please question your friend and repost the corrected information about this incident. If anyone knows who is responsible for this behavior from back in May or possibly earlier, please update too.
Edit: In the time it took me to call and then post this, the above post went up to claim similar. Please take note.

I apologize if I wrongly accused anyone - like I said, from the information I gathered and what I saw the graffiti seemed to be rather recent. I was not equating graffiti to a Hummer just for kicks - my friend said the guide service had "Adventure" in the name, and I saw a Hummer with a trailer (obviously a guide) with the word "Adventure" on it.

I guess the better question is - why has a very obvious piece of graffiti existed for a month on a popular climb in a popular area easily within eyeshot of a busy trail? Because it was almost half way up the wall, it's easy to imagine the DNR believing it was done by climbers, which could be detrimental to climbers' relationship with the park.

Your second paragraph above notes that it is easy for DNR or anyone to figure it was done by a climber,( or rappeler) due to the position of the defacing. This is sadly a high probability.
The first paragraph describing the vehicle and trailor of a guide service still has NOTHING to do with the event! Guide services are not to be the immediate suspect of something being done at the lake. Why not identify some car from Minnesota seen in the lot as being the culprit? Still asking who this 'friend' was that is making the claim, the linking of the event to the owners of the vehicle and guide service. This part of the posting seems to be an intentional low blow with no knowledge or evidence to support the statement.

Okay, I don't care about the guides. I trust you they didn't do it. I wasn't blaming guides because I hate guides - if someone told me someone from Minnesota did it I'd be equally upset. I was implying that there might be a connection between the only guide service in the parking lot and the guide at that crag. Like I said, didn't see it happen.

It's more upsetting that apparently everyone knew about this graffiti and chose to do nothing.

" because I hate guides".,,. 'implying there might be a connection', ..'I didn't see it happen'.......

THANK YOU for admitting your bias about this whole incident. It's a shame that what vandals do suddenly gets blamed on a guide service. I admit there are inconsiderate guides(mostly just the sponsored church, youth groups with no real training) who flood the East Bluff with dozens of climbers on crowded weekends. This service happens to only use the eastbluff with small family outings. If they have a group of 10 scout-like youths, they head out of the mainstream for Stettners, Misery Rocks, RR Amphitheater, etc. kind of places. And as with accepted Devils lake courtesy, they let others use their set up ropes if not in use. Not liking guide services to start with seems to be the real root of the problem here.
If anyone sees vandalism, poor anchor or rope technique, poor safety ,etc. Please Speak Up to those you witness. It's all for the safety and good of the climbing community to do so. It does no good to slam someone or make false claims in a huge public forum here at MP.

"I admit...Not liking guide services to start with"

"It does...good to...make false claims"

Oh no! You're biased and an admitted liar!

We were up there in mid May and there was a guided group of a dozen or so teenagers I couldn't figure out why they kept saying "Possum" half way up the climb. At that time this word was not on the rock that I noticed.

This particular group was being guided on a jacked anchor and I was met with derision when I merely raised the question of the anchors soundness so I backed off.

I do not know who wrote the word but having been absent form the scene at the Lake for several years I am shocked by the presence of large groups in popular areas and the abundance of shit anchors.

The standards have fallen dramatically.

JaSred: none of the guide services I know of will do such a thing. I also know for a fact myself that the graffiti has been up there for over a month. This guide you bad mouthed is professionally trained and professional in how they act. They do the utmost to lessen impact on the climbs.

Your post was immature and hastily posted. Please recant and have the MP administrators delete your posting. Thanks

Regardless of who originally did it, thank you op for attempting to keep the rock clean.

To be fair James, nobody cares at this point who it was, nor were any guide names given. And I know of three different guides services with hummers. The main point to take out of this: If one sees graffiti or defacing of rocks or other natural wonders, that person is morally and ethically responsible to mitigate the finding...whether it be through cleaning or making the proper people aware. Honestly, this thread should stop here, Number 1 rule: don't be a jerk

Adam Wunsch wrote:To be fair James, nobody cares at this point who it was, nor were any guide names given. And I know of three different guides services with hummers. The main point to take out of this: If one sees graffiti or defacing of rocks or other natural wonders, that person is morally and ethically responsible to mitigate the finding...whether it be through cleaning or making the proper people aware. Honestly, this thread should stop here, Number 1 rule: don't be a jerk

No. The take away is that if you see somebody endangering access for everybody, anything less than a verbal lashing is not ok. They need to be publicly harassed, preferably embarrased. Ask Foucalt.

Second, if you see graffiti, do something about it. However, they are not morally or ethically responsible to clean it up themselves. It'd be great, and at the least it should be posted on MP for those more inclined to do something about it.

Don't litter or vandalize anywhere in the park, especially around the cliffs where climbers tend to be held responsible. Report any witnessed violations to park officials if you can.

Don't make false accusations or infer someone is guilty just because a second party told you something they thought might be true.

Climb responsibly. Share ropes when you can on crowded days. Keep a low profile if you have a fairly large group(more than 6?) All people don't climb just in pairs anymore, especially in areas like Devils Lake where topropes will always outnumber the lead climbs being done each day.

If you witness a group member doing something unsafe or vandalizing, see if you can find their group leader to report it. A loud negative confrontation is not needed. Report to park if needed later.

Adam Wunsch wrote:To be fair James, nobody cares at this point who it was, nor were any guide names given. And I know of three different guides services with hummers. The main point to take out of this: If one sees graffiti or defacing of rocks or other natural wonders, that person is morally and ethically responsible to mitigate the finding...whether it be through cleaning or making the proper people aware. Honestly, this thread should stop here, Number 1 rule: don't be a jerk

We all should "care" who did this as we all enjoy the privilege of using this amazing resource for our preferred pastime.

If anything can jeopardize access I think tagging the East Rampart is high on the list.

I also believe that jay squared jumped the gun a bit in his OP but to be fair he did edit his post "EDIT: Hummer people didn't do it. "

Our experience with a large guided group using the word possum on the climb does seem to be too much of a coincidence.

Again I do not know who wrote the word and am not accusing anyone but as stewards of the resource we enjoy I believe it is our responsibility to sharply criticize and point out this type of damaging behavior. I personally have done so when guided groups have strung webbing across the CCC trail impeding hikers. The response was to say they did not have enough gear to set the climb without running across the trail. Well if I as a private climber enjoying the resource with friends have made the commitment have enough gear surely a business person engaged in making a profit should be expected to?

Woodchuck ATC wrote: Report any witnessed violations to park officials if you can. If you witness a group member doing something unsafe or vandalizing, see if you can find their group leader to report it. A loud negative confrontation is not needed. Report to park if needed later.

I feel it is best to keep this kind of conflict within the family so to speak and yes guides and their parties are included. Running to park officials may cause an unintended backlash endangering access.

A major problem with using the internet to discipline folks is the lack of due process... we include a right to respond in our legal process for a reason. Even with the best of intentions we all jump to conclusions from time to time.

Looks like we need another graffiti removal day. There is still a bunch at Devils Doorway, too. The handwriting here looks similar to some of what's over there, if I'm remembering right. It's sad that graffiti seems to be more frequent at the Lake these days. (I wouldn't worry that the DNR will jump to the conclusion that all climbers are bad people ....)

Dunbar & I ended up picking up trash and hauling it all the way around the Lake, on Saturday.

James, we still need to schedule a dumpster diving-day at Elephant/Tomahawk/Monolith. We'll need a pickup-stick or two, even you won't be able to squirm in and get some of what we saw Saturday.

More work for Hoofers and the Wisconsin Climbers Association.

Juggler wrote: They do the utmost to lessen impact on the climbs. Your post was immature and hastily posted. Please recant and have the MP administrators delete your posting. Thanks

I respectfully disagree. I was working with what knowledge I had, and I decided it would be a good idea to post on MountainProject to find out more information. More information has since come to light since this posting, so I think it has been worthwhile.

I did not originally intend for this to be a thread about guides. As I previously mentioned, I have no ill feelings toward guides, and this thread would be called "Teenager Graffiti" had I seen some hooligan do it.

Also, as previously mentioned, it is almost worse that multiple people knew about this graffiti and chose to do nothing. I would hope that climber's feel a sense of duty toward their main climbing area, and especially those climbers who make a living off of taking people there. We're not talking about some obscure tag half way up a talus field - this was visible from a very popular trail in a popular climbing area. There are obviously implications for climbers from something like this, regardless of whether or not a climber did it. It's in our best interest to make sure these things don't happen, people know not to do it, and we clean up after those who do not know better.

Doug Hemken wrote:A major problem with using the internet to discipline folks is the lack of due process... we include a right to respond in our legal process for a reason. Even with the best of intentions we all jump to conclusions from time to time. Looks like we need another graffiti removal day. There is still a bunch at Devils Doorway, too. The handwriting here looks similar to some of what's over there, if I'm remembering right. It's sad that graffiti seems to be more frequent at the Lake these days. (I wouldn't worry that the DNR will jump to the conclusion that all climbers are bad people ....) Dunbar & I ended up picking up trash and hauling it all the way around the Lake, on Saturday. James, we still need to schedule a dumpster diving-day at Elephant/Tomahawk/Monolith. We'll need a pickup-stick or two, even you won't be able to squirm in a get some of what we saw Saturday. More work for Hoofers and the Wisconsin Climbers Association.

The person, persons who tagged can respond and explain their reasoning at any time so due process is preserved. No one was called out by name and the implied culprit was unequivocally cleared by the OP.

I am happy to help with cleanup but the fact that we need a graffiti cleanup day is just sad.

Done. Not a problem.

Can't you guys fucking read? Jay was reporting what he heard not accusing anyone. The fact that it was just some random word painted where only climbers or rappelers go to indicate it might have been done to encourage snot nosed little shits to climb towards and painted by a guide. It's a reasonable assumption.

Do you think the person who did it would actually admit it if asked anyway?

I bet it was done by FIBs! Kill, kill, KILL!