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By patrick donahue
From Gunnison, Colorado
Nov 6, 2012
me climbing at lost horizon, NH
what are some good grade V routes in NH VT or upstate NY for good aid climbing up too C2+ or A3

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By Derek Doucet
Nov 7, 2012
patrick donahue wrote:
what are some good grade V routes in NH VT or upstate NY for good aid climbing up too C2+ or A3


There are no Grade Vs in NH, VT or NY. There are no Grade IVs for that matter. There are some good options for shorter aid routes however if they are of interest...

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By Ben Brotelho
From Albany, NY
Nov 7, 2012
Epic free solo with a pack on
there ARE grade IV's on Wallface...get Adirondack Rock by Jim Lawyer/ Jeremy Haas

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By Seth Derr
From harrisburg, pa
Nov 7, 2012
Hey there!
The VMC is at least grade IV isn't it? Not sure about the aid though.

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By MikeS
From Boulder, CO
Nov 7, 2012
Check out Cannon. Routes are just shy of 1000' and there are several aid climbs at the grade you're looking for.

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By KeithS
Nov 7, 2012
Fruit Cup Wall (V, 5.9+, A3...I think thats the rating...) or Labyrinth Wall (can't remember the rating) on Cannon...Very few Grade V's in New England

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By AWinters
Administrator
From the Shire
Nov 7, 2012
Red-tail Hawk, Buttermilks
Derek Doucet wrote:
There are no Grade Vs in NH, VT or NY. There are no Grade IVs for that matter. There are some good options for shorter aid routes however if they are of interest...


Wrong. VMC Direct and Labyrinth Wall (5.8 A2) on Cannon are V, plus a bunch of grade IV's.

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By john strand
From southern colo
Nov 7, 2012
I would for sure give Lab Wall a V, esp in winter. hell some of the longer routes on Whitehorse may get a IV Eliminate, south Butt direct

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By Derek Doucet
Nov 7, 2012
Adam Winters wrote:
Wrong. VMC Direct and Labyrinth Wall (5.8 A2) on Cannon are V, plus a bunch of grade IV's.


I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on what constitutes a grade V then.

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By Eric Engberg
Nov 7, 2012
Derek Doucet wrote:
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on what constitutes a grade V then.


So the Nose goes in < 2:30 - what grade does that make it?

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By Derek Doucet
Nov 7, 2012
Ben Botelho wrote:
there ARE grade IV's on Wallface...get Adirondack Rock by Jim Lawyer/ Jeremy Haas


I could agree with this if we're speaking about car to car in a day ascents and including the hiking when assigning a grade of IV to the overall effort. I'm not personally aware of any routes on Wallface where the actual technical climbing is grade IV in length. Wallface routes are usually in the 5-8 pitch range, depending on how you pitch them out, and that's just not grade IV. By the way, I'm not dissing these areas. They're my home crags and I love em'. But to call anything in Vermont, New Hampshire (including Cannon) or New York Grade V by modern standards is a real stretch. I'll revise my original contention and say that a route or two on Cannon might just barely be characterized as Grade IV, but believe that's a bit of a stretch as well.

Once again, I don't intend these remarks to be disparaging. I love these crags, but in the grand scheme of things, they just aren't that tall...

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By Derek Doucet
Nov 7, 2012
Eric Engberg wrote:
So the Nose goes in < 2:30 - what grade does that make it?


Are you actually drawing a comparison between Cannon, Wallface, etc. and the Nose?

Anyway, my definition of Grade IV for the record: A route that takes a full day to complete for a typical party of 2, competent at the grade.

The logical extension of that definition is that the Nose is a Grade VI, because the typical party of two, competent at the grade, takes several days to complete it.

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By Derek Doucet
Nov 7, 2012
MikeS wrote:
Check out Cannon. Routes are just shy of 1000' and there are several aid climbs at the grade you're looking for.


This is probably the most pertinent and helpful response in this thread, my own included. As is clear by the posts in response to my deliberately provocative intial one, length and committment grades are entirely subjective. What might be grade V for me is grade II for someone else. Route length, difficulty, and how sustained a route route is at that difficulty are much better metrics IMO.

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By john strand
From southern colo
Nov 7, 2012
Lab wall, in wintry conditions, would be quite an accomplishment in a day.
Unless your name is Tuthill

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By Derek Doucet
Nov 7, 2012
Yep, Lab Wall in a day in winter would be something for sure. Certainly above my pay grade!

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By LeeAB
Administrator
From ABQ, NM
Nov 8, 2012
Once we landed we headed to Font to find a place to stay for the night before doing a day of wine tasting and heading to Buoux.
Just to get really nit picky, what constitutes a day?

  • Is it 24 Hours?
  • Is it 12Hours?
  • Is it a the length of daylight on June 21st?
  • Is it the amount of daylight on December 21st?

Maybe everything should get an extra commitment grade in winter and loose one in the summer...?

You can read some more thoughts on this under the comments of Rainbow Dancer.

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By Eric Engberg
Nov 8, 2012
What is a "day"? What is "average" - all pretty subjective. You can either go with the traditional grades as they have been given over the past 30-40 years or you can go revisionist like DD wants to do.

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By Eric D
From Gnarnia
Nov 8, 2012
Born again on the last move of the Red Dihedral, high Sierras.
LeeAB - There is no set definition of "a day" when rating climbs. It is not a science, so people just give it their best estimate.

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