General aid help!!!
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Hey guys, I'm reeeeealy fresh to this aid stuff and still pretty young. If you don't mind answering a few questions I have, that would be greatly appreciated. |
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Hey Brandon: |
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I'm in the same boat (really green to aid). |
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1. Figure eight on bight |
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1. Eight on a bight. |
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Yer gunna die! |
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For multi-pitch aid routes, do folks really bring along a static line for the 2nd to follow on? |
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ChooChoo wrote:...once weighted (i.e. stretched out), the dynamic rope for the most part performs just like the static kind.Just wanted to make sure everyone saw that part. This is a great thread. Keep the advice coming. It's entertaining as all hell. |
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Are you people leading on a static?! How are you cleaning on a static? |
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Hey Brandon, |
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ChooChoo wrote:Yes, a dynamic rope will stretch more than a static, but you pretty much get used to it. And once weighted (i.e. stretched out), the dynamic rope for the most part performs just like the static kind.Not true. It can be dangerous to jug a dynamic line. If it is touching an edge anywhere then the jugging creates a sawing action that can wear the rope and cut it pretty fast. I'd say that's quite a disadvantage when compared to static. |
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Ryan Williams wrote: Not true. It can be dangerous to jug a dynamic line. If it is touching an edge anywhere then the jugging creates a sawing action that can wear the rope and cut it pretty fast. I'd say that's quite a disadvantage when compared to static.Ryan I am no expert aid master, only did the one big wall and that was 21 years ago. But I don't see how your going to have someone follow and clean on a static line if you don't lead on one (and I know your not saying that). When I did the Magic Mushroom the guy I was with had 18 other El Cap routes under his belt and he wanted nothing to do with a static line. Not even for hauling, there had been, he told me, more then one death from dropping the haul bag on a static line. As I recall it was 3 all in one party but none the less. It's the leaders job to make sure he uses a runner or comes up with some way to eliminate running the rope over sharp edges. No disrespect intended I just don't see how your going to pull it off. Seems like you would have to have an extra rope that is only used for the second. And then if it's not clipped to each piece, or at least most of them, how will you be sure the second can get to them. |
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Static lines aren't immune to abrasion/cutting, either. That's why cavers are so picky about padding their 11mm super-beefy pit lines. Many will set up rebelays so the rope never touches rock. |
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Chris Macnamara has an incredible Book online with lots of videos. I trust everything he has here, from techniques to gear he likes. |
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Ryan Williams wrote: Not true. It can be dangerous to jug a dynamic line. If it is touching an edge anywhere then the jugging creates a sawing action that can wear the rope and cut it pretty fast. I'd say that's quite a disadvantage when compared to static.Haven't done much aid have you Ryan. |
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Clove backed up by an 8 as others have said.
Yates/fish/metolius. any ladder style with a spreader bar that fits your budget. I would also say that learning to place gear aid climbing might be better than placing a bunch free climbing. You get instant feedback as to whether or not the gear is good (at least for bodyweight). Free climbing, you will most likely not fall on or even weight a piece of gear for a VERY long time (if you climb timid on gear like me, took about 2 years). Of course this is a bit sketchy for the first 2-3 placements of an aid climb, as if any of them blow you are going to deck from 6-8 feet up, but past that if anything blows you are taking a wee little fall onto your next piece, and that next piece is going to be bomber if you are staying in the c0-c2 range. The one area you will need to learn is setting up bomber 3-5 piece equalized gear anchors. Not everything has bolted belays. Good pitches to cut your aid teeth in the front range: -Aid Crack into Nightvision at Cob Rock in boulder canyon. 3 pitches, 95% c1. I'd recommend taking a camhook (p1) and a regular hook (p2) for two tricky spots but you can get by without them. Super awesome learner aid route, was my first pitch, also my buddies first aid pitch. Entirely north facing, all day shade. p1 is gear belay, p2 is slung boulders, p3 giant tree. -Country Club Crack, Castle Rock in Boulder Canyon. 2 pitches, some trickery on the first getting into the crack, but then cruiser c1 for 1.5 pitches. South facing, pretty much all day sun. Both anchors bolted. -Gill Crack into Black Crack also on Castle Rock. Small C1 with a bit of reachy blindy trickery transfering into black crack. South facing. Bolted anchor. -Aid Roof, also castle rock. 30' horizontal roof crack. might be better once you get some experience, cleaning is a pain, but good practice! Also good for learning/practicing lower outs. South facing. Bolted anchor. -RoadRunner and 30.06 at Wall of 90s in CCC. Both can be done in one (long) or two shortish pitches. Gear anchors for the first pitch, bolts at the top. Again, mostly C1 with a bit of trickery at various spots. afternoon sun, kinda. -Supremacy Crack in Eldorado Canyon. Overhanging/traversing C1, good to get your cleaning/jugging systems down! kinda south/west, mostly shaded. I would also look into the 'frogging' style of jugging. Rather than using two ascenders and your ladders, you use one ascender with a pre-measured foot loop and a grigri/cinch. Bit less gear to contend with, its more secure (pretty much impossible for a grigri to pop off the rope on traversing/overhanging stuff), and arguably easier once you get the hang of it. mountainproject.com/v/the-b… mountainproject.com/v/juggi… I might be convinced to take ya out, most of my free days are spoken for tho... good luck, have fun! |
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rather than get snippets of advice from random people on the net, you need an understanding of all the components, then you can learn to apply them to 'systems' |
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Dustin's right, you do need an overall understanding of what's going where and why. |
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Brandon- |
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Clarification. I mentioned that static line is the 'preferred' following option, but like others have indicated, you typically don't have that luxury. Because you'll have to follow on the dynamic lead line (10mm or so)and haul on a thick static. That's what I do. But some folks may argue that you might as well haul on a dynamic so that you have a back-up lead line if something happens to the main one (core-shot, etc). |
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Hauling with a static rope sucks. Hauling with a dynamic rope really really sucks. Too much bounce - even if you are using a 2 to 1 system. |