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Geeking out on going light with trad.
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By The Ex-Engineer
From UK
Jan 17, 2013
Matchus wrote:
I am surprised that no one has suggested using the munter hitch to belay instead of a belay device... This would definitely be lighter.


I probably wouldn't, I find they just twist the rope too badly.

However, I've been meaning to find an excuse I play with the 'Monster Munter' (essentially a double Munter hitch) which by all accounts does not have any of the twisting problems.

If you haven't heard of it have a look at the video below (but fast forward straight to 6 minutes to avoid a very long-winded introduction and recap of the standard Munter hitch.)


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By David Appelhans
From Lafayette
Jan 18, 2013
Imaginate
Not all climbs involve rapping and the munter doesn't twist the rope badly unless you are rapping. So this is actually a useful idea if your objective has a walk off. It is really reasonable to belay the follower with a munter off the anchor, so maybe just ditching one belay device would be the best compromise between weight and convenience.

...I'll still be bringing a real belay device though. I'll also be using a harness with gear loops ;)

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By Superclimber
Jan 18, 2013
bearbreeder wrote:
like i said ... theres smart light ... and there stupid light that may save you a marginal weight but takes longer

This is an important point. I think the best thing is to go as light as possible, but still show up prepared. Accordingly, it's not always gonna be the same rack, rope, emergency stuff, and amount of water. Ya gotta be mission specific.

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By Superclimber
Jan 18, 2013
In case anyone's interested. I got the Camp Air CR. It's about 10 oz, wads up really small, is intended to be a light but all around harness, and it has 4 gear loops. However, the two back gear loops are mounted way in the back and up kinda high making them hard to reach. Camp wouldn't adjust the gear loops and I don't blame them. So I moved them myself (I know... I'm gonna die), but I'm still not very happy with it. In short, I think the Air CR pretty much sucks and I'm shopping around for a better option.

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By The Ex-Engineer
From UK
Feb 12, 2013
Just to add that I've now bought a couple of the Grivel Plume screwgates at 37g each grivel.com/products/rock/carab...

They are a very nice bit of kit. Small certainly, but still usable when combined with skinny ropes and 8mm slings.

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By Khoi
From Vancouver, BC
Feb 13, 2013
The Ex-Engineer wrote:
Just to add that I've now bought a couple of the Grivel Plume screwgates at 37g each grivel.com/products/rock/carab... They are a very nice bit of kit. Small certainly, but still usable when combined with skinny ropes and 8mm slings.


I've been trying to find a place that sells them for a while now. I've even emailed Grivel.

No luck so far.

Where did you find yours?

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By DannyUncanny
From Vancouver
Feb 13, 2013
The Ex-Engineer wrote:
I probably wouldn't, I find they just twist the rope too badly. However, I've been meaning to find an excuse I play with the 'Monster Munter' (essentially a double Munter hitch) which by all accounts does not have any of the twisting problems.


If you try belaying with a Monster Munter, you're going to have a bad time. A regular Munter works fine for belaying and is the standard for most of Europe. It's only when it's weighted (lowering or rapelling) that you get twists.

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By The Ex-Engineer
From UK
Feb 16, 2013
Khoi wrote:
I've been trying to find a place that sells them for a while now. I've even emailed Grivel. No luck so far. Where did you find yours?


I bought them direct from The Mountain Boot Company (who are the UK distributor for Scarpa and Grivel) since I needed to order some crampon spares from them anyway.

Liberty Mountain import Grivel into the USA and have the Plume listed on their website - libertymountain.com/shop/index... - and whilst the won't sell them to you direct, they ought to be able tell you which companies are stocking them. Try emailing sales@libertymountain.com

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By Spencer Daniels
From Sandy,utah
Feb 17, 2013
leading the first pitch
You realize if your eating twinkys it's not going to matter how like your gear is......

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By Superclimber
Feb 17, 2013
No matter how skinny or fat you are a heavy pack still feels like a heavy pack. Trimming off the beer gut helps, but so does lightening your gear.

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By bearbreeder
Feb 17, 2013
theres no doubt that weight makes a difference at the limits of whats possible ... especially on longer days

but theres also no doubt that a lot of those bragging about their new shinny weight saving gear are overweight climbers that dont do much more than moderate cragging or climb an easy multi ... looking to make up for time that wasnt spent climbing/training with gear ...

or just looking to show off their new bling ;)

if your gear is still nice and shiny after a few months ....

skills and fitness are what really matter ...

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By Superclimber
Feb 18, 2013
Yeah, people who like backcountry or high country moderates are a bunch of fat asses. Furthermore, people with arthritis, back problems, or old injuries shouldn't be climbing anyway. Their time is better spent bowling and olympic beer chugging.

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By bearbreeder
Feb 18, 2013
Chris Miller wrote:
Yeah, people who like backcountry or high country moderates are a bunch of fat asses. Furthermore, people with arthritis, back problems, or old injuries shouldn't be climbing anyway. Their time is better spent bowling and olympic beer chugging.


they should spend their time yapping about the lightest gear on MP instead ;)

if yr going to places like squamish and doing a few easy pitches, but yapping about how much better this or that gear is because its lighter ...well ...

their time is better spend going out climbing and training ... i had knee surgery 2 years ago ... before that i climbed with a blown ACL ... i didnt have the lighest stuff before or after ...

whenever people make physical excuses about climbing ... i simply post this ...



whosaysicant.org/uncategorized...

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By Ray Pinpillage
From West Egg
Feb 18, 2013
Middle
Chris Miller wrote:
Yeah, people who like backcountry or high country moderates are a bunch of fat asses. Furthermore, people with arthritis, back problems, or old injuries shouldn't be climbing anyway. Their time is better spent bowling and olympic beer chugging.


Lame excuse. Arthritic fat-body would be less prone to injury and a more capable climber by loosing that extra body fat than he/she would by buying a dozen lightweight caribiners. Dropping five pounds of pack weight would benefit said fatso while carrying pack but physical fitness would benefit them every day of their life.


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By DrApnea
From Wenatchee, WA
Feb 18, 2013
I bet those things edge better than my shoes...

Anyway, why complain about people trying to go with light gear.
This is the Climbing Gear Forum section of the forums isn't it?
Not the Training Forum right? Let people discuss the gear.

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By Jason S.
From Durango, Co
Feb 18, 2013
Attempting the Serrator... didn't go well
Lightweight legs? That is taking it too far, but I bet he saved a few pounds off the standard models. "I am thinking about getting metal legs. It's a risky operation, but it'll be worth it" Jp

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By Superclimber
Feb 18, 2013
It sounds like you're trying to imply that everyone who is interested in the light and fast concept is fat and out of shape. That just isn't true. Maybe some are, but certainly not everyone.

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By bearbreeder
Feb 18, 2013
Im sure plenty of folks going as light as they can are pushing themselves and are as fit and skillful as they can be

But im just as sure theres just as many who just buy it and yak about it without pushing themselves ... Like those overweight cyclist at sbucks who spend more time bragging about their carbon fiber bikes and how to save a few grams ... Rather than just go ride ;)

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By frankstoneline
Feb 18, 2013
bearbreeder wrote:
they should spend their time yapping about the lightest gear on MP instead ;) if yr going to places like squamish and doing a few easy pitches, but yapping about how much better this or that gear is because its lighter ...well ... their time is better spend going out climbing and training ... i had knee surgery 2 years ago ... before that i climbed with a blown ACL ... i didnt have the lighest stuff before or after ... whenever people make physical excuses about climbing ... i simply post this ...


is that the dude who did city park with steel blades on or some shit?

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By S Denny
From Prescott, AZ
Feb 18, 2013
bearbreeder wrote:
Like those overweight cyclist at sbucks who spend more time bragging about their carbon fiber bikes and how to save a few grams ... Rather than just go ride ;)


definitely A LOT more of that going on in the cycling world than climbing. I'm skinny and stoked to use light gear in the mountains!

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By Nate Flink
From Minneapolis, MN
Jul 21, 2013
Nate Flink this is me, 2012 on Beckey's Wall, Litt...
I've used a Kong Ghost quite a bit with both a Black diamond Vaporlock and the DMM Shadow Locker (and others), in both lead and follower belaying on various moderate trad routes and in the gym. The Kong Ghost, generally works best with ropes in the 9.5-9.9 range in my experience. It tends to stick up with 10.2 ropes and higher. It also has some subtleties inherent to giving a smooth belay. You have to "angle" the rope when feeding to the device's internal angle.

I found that when belaying 1 or 2 seconds I much prefer the Reverso (original model) to the Ghost. I am going to order one of the new Reverso 4's! I am also going to order some of the new light Grivel Plume Locker's!

I feel that I always need at least 3 lockers for lead multi pitch routes -- 2 for belaying the second and 1 for being clipped to anchor.

Also, for all the "skinny people" who climb trad 12's complaining about **anything** - just take a powder ;)

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By Patrick Mulligan
Jul 26, 2013
The top of the tufa on Magma
Just a quick anecdote: I've been climbing on some of my gear for 20+ years and while much of my rack had been updated, most of it I had never felt the need to change. One of my climbing partners on a trip this past April simply looked at my old gear and suggested that as I have some connections on cheaper gear and the ability to upgrade my rack and draws that I do so. Over the next couple of months I replaced all my cams with new X4's, C4s, and dragon cams. All my racking biners were changed out with heliums or oz's or hoodwires, and draws with both Heliums and Anges, minus some of my trad draws that have original wiregates on them. I can't believe the weight difference. Add to that lighter / skinnier ropes and the difference on a long approach is huge. Without using a scale, its got to be close to 7-10 lbs that were lost carrying a rope and rack of doubles.

Its made me think back to the days (15 yrs) that I climbed with two sets of nuts, a couple of hexes and tri cams and four cams BD .5-#2. I climbed on that rack hundreds of pitches (many of which necessitated back cleaning) but also my hardest pitches. No wonder. I was carrying 1/3 of the weight. I might make it up pitches far faster now carrying a complete rack of doubles - plugging cams and gunning for it - but the simplicity of it could not have been beat.

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