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Geeking out on going light with trad.
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By Sandy Crimp
Jan 11, 2013
PRRose wrote:
It would be useful to compare the weight of your dream rack to a standard rack.


"Standard Rack" thats a vague concept.

But lets do that for my "standard".

Harness: Standard=350GM (BD Momentum); Light=240GM (Camp Air) -90GM

Biners: 50-Units (My "Standard" for long pitches; Alpine Draws and Racking Biners) 40GM's (average) 50*40=2,000GM; Light=23GM (Nano's) 23*50=1,150GM; -850GM

Slings 20 (60CM; a lot..I know..but my "standard") BD 18MM nylon 36GM 36*20=720GM; Mammut 8MM 14GM 14*20=280GM; -440GM

Cams Doubles of BD .3 - 4 All BD C4's = 4,150gm; Light= Metolius UL Power Cams; 2-8 Doubles-1,340gm + Dragon 5&6=941gm 1,340+941=2,281GM -1869GM

Savings=
Harness -90
Biners -850
Slings -440
Cams -1869

Sum- 3,249 Grams (excluding nuts, small cams, locking biner and belay); That is over 7 pounds!

FLAG
By Sandy Crimp
Jan 11, 2013
tenesmus wrote:
Why don't you just loose 10 pounds?


Because I already range between 8% and 11% bodyfat and like to drink beer.

FLAG
By Sandy Crimp
Jan 11, 2013
Sandy Crimp wrote:
Sum- 3,249 Grams (excluding nuts, small cams, locking biner and belay); That is over 7 pounds!


Double Set of C3's/TCU's;

BD(000-2)=598GM
UL-MetoliusTCU(00-3)=498Gm

Savings- 100GM or 3.5 ounces;

Tough call here.. I love them both.. I say split the difference with one set of both. Sometimes a TCU is PERFECT...sometimes..only a C3 will fit (small head size).

FLAG
By Garret Nuzzo-Jones
From Salt Lake City, UT
Jan 11, 2013
Cleaning up in Jenny Lake.
I like the ultralight CAMP biners, but the Nano is starting to get a little small to be called full size. The Photon is just a couple grams more and is truly full sized. The Photon screw gate is a fantastic locking biner but I generally try to not run my ropes through it because there's so little metal to wear through. Those BD mini-pearabiners can be nice for that.

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By rockhard
Jan 11, 2013
bubbas in bondage
dont think anybody has mentioned tri-cams. small to mids are probably best you can get for the weight and range.

FLAG
By Martin le Roux
From Superior, CO
Jan 11, 2013
Stairway to Heaven
Sandy Crimp wrote:
Cams Doubles of BD .3 - 4 All BD C4's = 4,150gm; Light= Metolius UL Power Cams; 2-8 Doubles-1,340gm + Dragon 5&6=941gm 1,340+941=2,281GM -1869GM


You might want to check your math. You're not going to save 1.87kg (over 4 lbs!) by switching from one brand of cams to another. I think you miscalculated the weight of the BD cams. A double set of BD C4s .3 to 4 doesn't weigh anywhere near 4kg. I come up with 1,137g for a single set or 2,274g for a double set. I'm using this chart: backcountry.com/Store/content/...

OTOH it looks like you're comparing a set of 16 BD cams with a set of 18 Metolius and DMM cams. If you want an apples-to-apples comparison you could exclude the Metolius 8. In that case the Metolius/DMM set weighs 1,981g. That's a bit lighter than the BD set, but the difference is only 293g or about 10oz. Not 4+ lbs.

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By Rob Warden, Space Lizard
From Springdale Ut
Jan 11, 2013
blah
Sandy Crimp wrote:
This appears incorrect. Blue: BD .3 71gm; DMM 00 75gm-- Advantage BD by 4 Grams Silver: BD .4 83gm; DMM 0 85gm-- Advantage BD by 3 Grams Purple: BD. 5 97gm; DMM 1 97gm-- Equal; but advantage to DMM due to longer sling. Sizes .75, 1 and 2 (BD Sizes) is where Dragons shine! Green: BD .75 116gm; DMM 106gm-- Advantage DMM 10 Grams Red: BD 1 124gm; DMM 119gm-- Advantage DMM 15 Grams Yellow: BD 2 158gm; Dmm 148gm-- Advantage DMM 10 Grams DMM maintains there advantage on Blue (BD3) and Grey (BD4) by 6 and 2 grams each. So dragons only really have a discernable difference for BD sizes .75, 1 & 2. It seems that Metolius Power UL Cams wins the light game except for BD size 3 & 4 which are bigger than their range.


Meh is an approximate value... I dident weigh them. the few times I used them I was not blow away by the difference till around the two camalot. But hell this threads about slaying grams, so chastised i am the difference between the BD 4 and the DMM is crazy though. I like the helium 4 more but that's really more of a 3.5+ to 4- YMMV

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By JMo
From Tucson, AZ
Jan 11, 2013
vertebrae roof
8-11% fat on your body, & counting grams on biners??? You are barking up the wrong tree. Smell the beer then give to friend to drink.

FLAG
 
By csproul
From Rancho Cordova, CA
Jan 11, 2013
Summit of Wolf's Head with Pingora in the background
JMo wrote:
8-11% fat on your body, & counting grams on biners??? You are barking up the wrong tree. Smell the beer then give to friend to drink.

Do you know if Sandy is male or female? Makes a difference ya know.

FLAG
By JMo
From Tucson, AZ
Jan 11, 2013
vertebrae roof
Agreed I humbly retract if so

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By Jake Jones
From Richmond, VA
Jan 11, 2013
Me and the offspring walking back to the car after a day of cragging.
JMo wrote:
Smell the beer then give to friend to drink.


If you can successfully do this, then I submit to you that you definitely have the mental fortitude and discipline required to climb gear protected routes at the 5.11a level.

FLAG
By Mark Roth
From Boulder
Jan 11, 2013
not climbing
Sandy Crimp wrote:
I know that eating less twinkies and drinking less beer is cheaper!

Of course...
Have you checked the price of Twinkies lately??

FLAG
By Brad M
Jan 11, 2013
Full-size vs ultra-light is explained here blackdiamondequipment.com/en-u...

Going ultra-light and considering BD C4's must be a joke. WC Heliums all the way.

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By superkick
From West Hartford, CT
Jan 11, 2013
Free Solo up hitchcock gully WI3
Why do trad people need to go ultra light? Are you climbing at altitude?

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By TWK
Jan 11, 2013
superkick wrote:
Why do trad people need to go ultra light? Are you climbing at altitude?


Why carry extra weight? If you're buying new gear, why not get the lightest stuff, as long as it's safe, easy to use, durable, and affordable?

Even though it's minutiae, this is a worthy thread.

Pay attention to the small stuff, and the big stuff will take care of itself.

FLAG
By superkick
From West Hartford, CT
Jan 11, 2013
Free Solo up hitchcock gully WI3
Never once while climbing trad has weight been a limiting factor for me...

shed your own pounds if youre concerned about weight. Youll carry less and its cheaper...

FLAG
 
By Brassmonkey
Jan 11, 2013
Brass monkey
superkick wrote:
Never once while climbing trad has weight been a limiting factor for me... shed your own pounds if youre concerned about weight. Youll carry less and its cheaper...


Well you might be right for a certain sect of climbers. These climbers are the same type of bikers that I smile at when they explain to me that this $1000 part is 20g lighter than the $200 part all while they have 20 extra pounds hanging off of their belly. I wonder what that 20 lbs equates to monetarily in that context. (some also just have the coin and like gear)

Either way when you start climbing harder trad (I noticed your profile said you lead 5.8, if this is incorrect I apologize) it definitely can matter, in the same way a lighter rope or draws matter in sport climbing.

Is some of it negligible? Of course; but when you are trying to, say onsight a 12a on gear, weight definitely can matter. Of course even this is relative as there are climbers who could easliy do this with an extremely heavy and outdated rack.

And I am routinely 4-6% body fat, I have no weight to lose.

FLAG
By Phill T
Jan 11, 2013
surprised no one has really mentioned ropes? for the longer RR routes, a lot of routes require two ropes to get off of IIRC. Twins/doubles would definitely save alot of weight over 2 full strength ropes. This will also benefit you greatly on wandering alpine routes where full length raps might be the difference between getting caught by a storm on the way down or somewhere on the trail.

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By Superclimber
Jan 11, 2013
superkick wrote:
Never once while climbing trad has weight been a limiting factor for me... shed your own pounds if youre concerned about weight. Youll carry less and its cheaper...

It's not so much about the climbing part as it is the grueling approach.

FLAG
By Superclimber
Jan 11, 2013
Brassmonkey wrote:
Well you might be right for a certain sect of climbers. These climbers are the same type of bikers that I smile at when they explain to me that this $1000 dollar part is 20g lighter than the $200 dollar part all while they have 20 extra pounds hanging off of their belly. I wonder what that 20 lbs equates to monetarily in that context. (some also just have the coin and like gear) Either way when you start climbing harder trad (I noticed your profile said you lead 5.8, if this is incorrect I apologize) it definitely can matter, in the same way a lighter rope or draws matter in sport climbing. Is some of it negligible? Of course; but when you are trying to, say onsight a 12a on gear, weight definitely can matter. Of course even this is relative as there are climbers who could easliy do this with an extremely heavy and outdated rack. And I am routinely 4-6% body fat, I have no weight to lose.

I could stand to loose 5-10 lbs, but fuck that.

FLAG
By Ben Beckerich
From saint helens, oregon
Jan 11, 2013
About half way up the East Arete on Illumination Rock
Chris Miller wrote:
I could stand to loose 5-10 lbs, but fuck that.


I do not think I'm any kind of amazing speed climber, but I've never met anyone who can out-pace me on vertical gain, whether hiking up or on route. I've climbed with some pretty fit dudes... work out all the time, run, eat right, have Greek bodies.

Me? I have a spare tire. The only conditioning I do is climbing a couple times a month. I do have an intermittently physical job, and that helps... but I think the reason I can go full blast and for so much longer is ENERGY RESERVES.

My small "spare tire" is a spare battery.

That's my theory, anyway. There's not really any other explanation for it.

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By Superclimber
Jan 11, 2013
Ben B. wrote:
My small "spare tire" is a spare battery.

Mine is a fuel tank for a sex machine, ha!

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By Ray Pinpillage
From West Egg
Jan 11, 2013
Middle
Ben B. wrote:
I do not think I'm any kind of amazing speed climber, but I've never met anyone who can out-pace me on vertical gain, whether hiking up or on route. I've climbed with some pretty fit dudes... work out all the time, run, eat right, have Greek bodies. Me? I have a spare tire. The only conditioning I do is climbing a couple times a month. I do have an intermittently physical job, and that helps... but I think the reason I can go full blast and for so much longer is ENERGY RESERVES. My small "spare tire" is a spare battery. That's my theory, anyway. There's not really any other explanation for it.


Sounds like you need to climb with faster people.

FLAG
By S Denny
From Carbondale, CO
Jan 11, 2013
Ray Pinpillage wrote:
Sounds like you need to climb with faster people.


for real

FLAG
 
By Ben Beckerich
From saint helens, oregon
Jan 11, 2013
About half way up the East Arete on Illumination Rock
Ray Pinpillage wrote:
Sounds like you need to climb with faster people.


Lets do it, du

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