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Gear4Rocks Links Cam Review
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By Niki
From Joshua Tree, CA/Healy, AK
Apr 3, 2011
climbing

Thanks for posting this. I've been wondering about these cams. Maybe I'll try out some of these.


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By BASE99999
Apr 17, 2011

So Phil, how much did you get paid for this review?? What other compensation??

Looks like you sold them a fluff piece.

shop.gear4rocks.com/en/gear4rocks-links-cams-set-of-5-review>>>


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By Dave Swink
From Boulder, Co
Apr 17, 2011

Base,

Do you care that the tone of your comments undermine your credibility, not Phil's? Challenging Phil's integrity by accusing him of unreported compensation for the review makes you look really weak unless you can back it up.

You seem to be giving a lot of thought to the subject. Please bring on negative comments/questions about the Gear4Rocks cams without the capitalization, wild punctuation and accusations and your perspective will be more respected.


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By BASE99999
Apr 17, 2011

Evan Sanders wrote:
As for the made in America argument going on, don't a majority of companies still have US facilities? I thought BD still had a US manufacturing facility, they just outsourced the R&D to China.


Here is your tour of the Black Diamond China plant. Climbing gear, skis, boots, ETC.

www.tetonat.com/2011/01/26/black-diamonds-vendor-code-of-con>>>

BD tries to claim that it is their factory so that means that it is all American.

Wrong.

Factory in China equals:

Chinese people get jobs

Black Diamond save LOADS of money cause Chinese workers cost 1/10 of USA workers

China gets corporate taxes not the USA.

BD conforms to CHINA employment laws not the USA laws

BD conforms to CHINA environmental regulations not USA regs

BD conforms to CHINA worker health and safety laws not OSHA

These tells me that Black Diamond would rather give money to CHINA than the USA.

Black Diamond defacto supports China and takes advantage of less strict employment and environmental laws.

Don't Americans have an issue with Human Rights issues in China? YES.


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By BSU_Zac
From Cedar City, UT
Apr 17, 2011
Little Black Dike, February 2013

BASE1361 wrote:
Black Diamond defacto supports China and takes advantage of less strict employment and environmental laws. Don't Americans have an issue with Human Rights issues in China? YES.


Well it looks by the photos that the human rights in China seem pretty up to par. Especially since those factory conditions are about a 100x's nicer than any factory/fabrication plant I have worked in here in states.


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By John Maguire
From Boulder, CO
Apr 17, 2011
Bastille Crack Final Pitch

TDog wrote:
The worldly view from a 22 year old from Indiana.


Good one... Douche


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By John Maguire
From Boulder, CO
Apr 17, 2011
Bastille Crack Final Pitch

YEAH!!!! 22 YEAR OLDS SUCK!?!!..,,,!!!
AMERICA!!!!!!!
STUPID KIDS>{}{}{

More punctuation = better argument in this thread right?


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By Phil Lauffen
From The Bubble
Apr 17, 2011
RMNP skiing. Photo by Nodin de Saillan

BASE1361 wrote:
So Phil, how much did you get paid for this review?? What other compensation?? Looks like you sold them a fluff piece. shop.gear4rocks.com/en/gear4rocks-links-cams-set-of-5-review>>>


Hahaha. I stated I received the cams for free to do a review on them. The deal was I would put the review on mp, and they would post it on their website.


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By Scott McMahon
From Boulder, CO
Apr 18, 2011
Bocan

BASE1361 wrote:
Buy 'Made in the USA' people !!!! Black Diamond has been Chinese for a couple years now.


So I'm ALL for supporting the American economy, but who even really knows what this means? Welcome to a global economy!! Are we talking parts made and assembled in the US? Or parts made elsewhere and assembled in the US? Or parts made in US and exported?

Sorry all...the time has long gone where you can say "buy American" and it means something. Maybe buy products from American companies before they get too large and outsource? That makes more sense.

And also just a thought...these "low quality" countries have had cultures that were advanced 1000's of years before America was even a thought. Crazy I know!


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By Rocking Rick
From Silver City
Apr 18, 2011

That EBAY auction is retarded.

$230

Looks like someone wants to pay double for crap.

cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160574246367&ssP>>>


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By BSU_Zac
From Cedar City, UT
Apr 19, 2011
Little Black Dike, February 2013

people are retarded
people are retarded


People on Ebay are Re-tar-ded. This was a screen shot i took the other day. Thought i use it to back me up.


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By Vidal
From Boulder, CO
Apr 20, 2011

Without having too much of an opinion concerning domestic vs. foreign goods, I do notice that the main cam axle is most likely threaded (since it appears to have nylock nuts on both sides of the cam holding the lobes in place). In comparison to BD cams, which have a solid, most likely machined axle with cir-clips keeping everything in place, Gear4Rocks cams would, in theory, have higher stress concentrations at the threads. Specifically, where the threads end and the smooth segment of the bolt begins. This could weaken the axle in shear, which seems really scary considering the fall-stopping success of the cams is dependent upon this strength. This of course does not pose a problem if the bolt strength in shear meets or exceeds the safety factor for the particular cam. Would another (more experienced) engineer challenge me on this? I just graduated, so I don't claim to know much.


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By dannl
Apr 20, 2011

Not an engineer, but to stop a fall, aren't the forces on any cam's axle down in the middle and up where the lobes connect? Unless the threads extend from the end of the axle to under the lobes, they aren't involved in shear? Said another way, the ends of the axle aren't weight bearing, so does it matter if they have threads?

Edit:

Oops, I guess shear force is parallel to the axle. So I see why that would be bad. When the cam is loaded, how much force ends up on whatever is retaining the lobes?


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By DannyUncanny
From Vancouver
Apr 21, 2011

dannl wrote:
Not an engineer, but to stop a fall, aren't the forces on any cam's axle down in the middle and up where the lobes connect? Unless the threads extend from the end of the axle to under the lobes, they aren't involved in shear? Said another way, the ends of the axle aren't weight bearing, so does it matter if they have threads? Edit: Oops, I guess shear force is parallel to the axle. So I see why that would be bad. When the cam is loaded, how much force ends up on whatever is retaining the lobes?


0 force in theory. If it is a bottoming placement that got torqued, it could take some force, but I'm betting the axle itself or the lobes would bend first in that situation.


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By Aric Datesman
Apr 21, 2011

Vidal wrote:
...I do notice that the main cam axle is most likely threaded (since it appears to have nylock nuts on both sides of the cam holding the lobes in place). In comparison to BD cams, which have a solid, most likely machined axle with cir-clips keeping everything in place, Gear4Rocks cams would, in theory, have higher stress concentrations at the threads. ...


FWIW, BD's axle terminations are peened/riveted, not circlips. Also Gear For Rocks isn't the only one to use threaded axle terminations... Aliens, OP Linkcams, single stem RE cams and certain generations of Forged Friends do as well.


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By PDXGREG
From Portland, Oregon
May 4, 2011
Out in the OZONE

This thread is so amusing I had to actually create an account to respond. Lots of talk about products people have not even tried.

I use these cams. Love'em. Sure it takes 4 weeks for them to ship but they are bomber. They work, bottom line.

Y'all might want to try them before you go all sua sponte and condemn them.


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By lucero
From Oakland, Ca
May 9, 2011
me

Great review! Have you tried the 1axle cams?

I just bought a set of them and Ill post some images/thoughts when I take them out in the valley in a few weeks...
Cheers,
j


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By IsaiahZ
From Corvallis, OR
May 12, 2011
Winter climbing in Joshua Tree?

PDXGREG wrote:
Y'all might want to try them before you go all sua sponte and condemn them.


+1 RLTW?


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By PDXGREG
From Portland, Oregon
May 12, 2011
Out in the OZONE

IsaiahZ wrote:
+1 RLTW?


everyday


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By Jared R
May 13, 2011
Me on Sticky Revelations

Keenan Waeschle wrote:
same as what brendan said, your reviews rock!

ditto!


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By jffortier
Jun 24, 2011

Hey... I'm happy to see a full review of this set of cams. I bought a full set (aluminum nuts and link cams) last year. I want to show you what looked like the #5 cam (red) when I received it (brand new). You will all understand that I never used this cam with this major casting failure. I'm seriously questioning the quality control. It should have never been shipped to a customer.

Of course, I've asked for a replacement... And never received it! They (Ana) told me 3 times my replacement cam was on it's way. That way a year ago.

Beside, I must admit, I really like my nut set (aluminum).

Gear4rocks quality # 1?
Gear4rocks quality # 1?



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By Aric Datesman
Jul 12, 2011

jffortier wrote:
Hey... I'm happy to see a full review of this set of cams. I bought a full set (aluminum nuts and link cams) last year. I want to show you what looked like the #5 cam (red) when I received it (brand new). You will all understand that I never used this cam with this major casting failure.


Looks to me that it's the result of poorly aligned shearing dies rather than a casting flaw. Then again, given the cracking all over perhapes they actually are cast. Mind posting a view of the side of the cam/lobes?


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By jellis
From Washington, East and West
Jul 12, 2011

Rick Blair wrote:
Phil, Since you are into testing Eastern European gear, how about giving these things a go? www.viamontgear.com/gear/tricams/tricams.htm


They have an Eastern Washington phone # and pictures of Eastern Washington climbing.

Exploring their website more I have found that the owner actually goes to the same university as me. The product is American, the man is Czech.

Now you got me all curious.


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By Gunkiemike
Jul 12, 2011

Aric Datesman wrote:
Looks to me that it's the result of poorly aligned shearing dies rather than a casting flaw.


+1

But makes me wonder if the lobe material is being stamped and otherwise handled correctly.


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By Aric Datesman
Jul 12, 2011

Gunkiemike wrote:
But makes me wonder if the lobe material is being stamped and otherwise handled correctly.


FWIW, all of pics on their site look to me like the lobes are milled, so frankly I found the indication of them possibly being stamped surprising. I'd be very surprised if they were cast, as history has shown it can lead to poor grain structure and lobe failure (I forget the brand at the moment, but it was 10 or so years ago), plus that's either a big capital expenditure for a niche market or paying a premium for small runs at a casting house (read: milling from an extrusion would be cheaper with better grain structure). I can kinda see stamping being a possibility, but even then tooling costs would be kinda high compared to milling out of plate or bar for relatively small runs (read: stamping is generally a high volume production thing with long lead times and high tooling costs). As I mentioned, I'm kinda curious what's going on with the lobes in that pic...


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