Route Guide - iPhone / Android - Partners - Forum - Photos - Deals - What's New - School of Rock
Login with Facebook
 ADVANCED
Gear4Rocks Links Cam Review
View Latest Posts in This Forum or All Forums
   Page 2 of 4.  <<First   <Prev   1  2  3  4   Next>   Last>>
Follow replies to this topic? Notify me at the top of web site.
1

Email me.
 
By Evan1984
Mar 31, 2011

I'm glad someone is reviewing and testing the gear4rocks stuff. Thank's for doing it.

Personally, I wouldn't use them. Of course, I've already got a full rack, so the pain of $60/piece cams has faded.

That said, I just don't think that the company is reputable, yet.

The quality looks on par with CCH aliens, which is an endorsement and derogation at the same time.

Also, I think that the name "Links" cam is very telling about the company as a whole considering that it is a rip off of another brand(they should've picked a more reputable name to rip off).

The intent was to create a cheap option. There was no intent to to offer innovations. There is no real connection that I can see to climbing within the company.

It seems like some machine shop realized they could pump out knock offs of climbing gear, sell them over seas, and be done. Has anybody thought about how hard it would be to follow through with the company on any injuries considering that they are overseas and only visble as a seller on ebay?

Not for me.

Evan


FLAG
By Brendan Blanchard
From Strafford, NH
Mar 31, 2011
Obi Wan Ryobi - Darth Vader Crag, Rumney NH

Although I agree that they are not a reputable dealer at this time, I think they are making the steps towards that by having climbers within the community do reviews and by seeking the proper certifications.

I agree with Evan that they are not wholly reputable or trusted, but that's all the more reason for someone to test them in a controlled setting. (Sew up a crack, take a fall on one well above the ground with a backup MasterCam, C4, or other UIAA certified cam close behind.)

Base - Your claims are absolutely unsupported superstitions and hearsay. You don't have anything to back it up, and by the sounds of it you've never even used one, you're just here to criticize. All that goes without saying that your posts are trolling, to say the least.


FLAG
By Patrick Feeney
From hartland vt
Mar 31, 2011

buy american HELL NO..hey phil is the offer still on the table with the cams as for the nuts?i would be willing to pay shipping for the set to try them out for a month.i have the nuts and love them now i wanna try the cams before i buy them


FLAG
By JitsClimber
From Broomfield,Co
Mar 31, 2011
Me doing my Jits thing (what I do when not climbing)

Hey Phil, I've been wondering how these cams look/feel, since you're not that far from me and more then likely climb at the same places I do; would it be possible for me to check the out sometime? I also wouldn't mind taking a controlled fall at 'The Spot' on them if you don't have the time due to traveling. Let me know!

Rick


FLAG
By John Maguire
From Boulder, CO
Mar 31, 2011
Bastille Crack Final Pitch

Phil Lauffen wrote:
Thanks for the comments. There are a lot of single words and exclamation points in your post, which makes it difficult to understand, but I'll try to address your concerns as well as I can.


hahahaha


FLAG
By caughtinside
From Oakland CA
Mar 31, 2011

It's pretty amazing to me that people are interested in these cams. Not to say they won't work, but is that our measurement? Simply that they work?

If you have ever touched any cheapo cam and then used a quality cam, you can tell the difference. If you have ever tried to place a cheapo or off brand cam, you know it's a pain in the ass.

These gear4rocks cams can't even get a thumb loop which will accept a sling. They have shitty trigger action brand new. All for only $33, what a deal.

I'm sure it was fun to get these free and test them out but you are doing a disservice recommending them as a less expensive alternative. The people who don't know better and are buying a rack might read this and be persuaded to buy this junk, and in 6 months when they wise up will have to buy new cams.


FLAG
By Rick Blair
From Denver
Mar 31, 2011
This is a novel auto blocking belay device.  I think it works quite well, depending on rope thickness and sheath quality, it belays very smooth.  Great to lower with.  You gotta love over engineering.  $3 at a gear swap!

caughtinside wrote:
It's pretty amazing to me that people are interested in these cams. Not to say they won't work, but is that our measurement? Simply that they work? If you have ever touched any cheapo cam and then used a quality cam, you can tell the difference. If you have ever tried to place a cheapo or off brand cam, you know it's a pain in the ass. These gear4rocks cams can't even get a thumb loop which will accept a sling. They have shitty trigger action brand new. All for only $33, what a deal. I'm sure it was fun to get these free and test them out but you are doing a disservice recommending them as a less expensive alternative. The people who don't know better and are buying a rack might read this and be persuaded to buy this junk, and in 6 months when they wise up will have to buy new cams.

A lot of what you say above could be said about tricams, I don't consider them junk, they have their place.


FLAG
By DannyUncanny
From Vancouver
Mar 31, 2011

Why can't the thumb loop accept a sling?


FLAG
By caughtinside
From Oakland CA
Mar 31, 2011

Rick Blair wrote:
A lot of what you say above could be said about tricams, I don't consider them junk, they have their place.


I see a difference between a somewhat unique piece of gear like a tricam and a recommendation of a cheap cam when better cams are available. I don't think everyone needs to own a shiny new rack of BDs, but suggesting these as a cheap alternative will only be disappointing down the road to beginners.

But whatever. Caveat Emptor.


FLAG
By Phil Lauffen
From The Bubble
Mar 31, 2011
RMNP skiing. Photo by Nodin de Saillan

Hey Patrick, guess you didn't get my email from a while back. The offer is still on the table. Shoot me a pm and I'll get back to you.

Hey caughtinside, I see your points. I think that these cams are an alternative to buying used gear(same apprx. price). I know that I couldn't afford new gear at retail when I was first buying gear, and it would have been nice to have a cheap set to practice with, as well as provide doubles and triples when the opportunity arose.(run-on sentence? I think yes)

JitsClimber: as far as falling on them at "The Spot", I'm not sure if you are joking, but if you aren't, then I would recommend Movement climbing gym for indoor trad leading because they have some really nice long cracks. Also if you get scared about placing cams in fake rock, you could clip the in-situ draws alternately.


FLAG
By Sirius
From Oakland, CA
Mar 31, 2011
Moving through the crux lock - now that's micro beta for you, that is.

Thanks for taking the time to write this review. But personally I don't derive any meaningful information from it.

A review with integrity is one where the reviewer has not received anything of value from the manufacturer, and the gear has been used and abused in the field for at least a season by an experienced and knowledgeable individual. Climbing is a serious enough game that if these two basic conditions aren't met, the review should be considered tainted.

The example of your emphasis on CE certification is a case in point: before Conor Byrne's explanation, neither you nor I nor many reading this thread understood that CE certification is worth balls. If a reviewer is not knowledgeable, she/he has the potential to mislead the community. Worse still, mislead in the interest of the manufacturer, which has a shillish taste to it. Had Conor not corrected, you and I and others would be in the dark.

While I appreciate your intention to contribute to the community, I agree with others who are skeptical of the merits of this review. Hope I'm not violating Guideline #1.


FLAG
By Rick Blair
From Denver
Mar 31, 2011
This is a novel auto blocking belay device.  I think it works quite well, depending on rope thickness and sheath quality, it belays very smooth.  Great to lower with.  You gotta love over engineering.  $3 at a gear swap!

Phil,

Since you are into testing Eastern European gear, how about giving these things a go?
www.viamontgear.com/gear/tricams/tricams.htm

As far as placing gear at gym, is this something they allow or do you do that on the DL? Well I guess not quite on the DL after posting it on MP :-)

There are no standards for submitting a review on MP, its the internet, discuss and learn.


FLAG
By Tristan Higbee
From Thailand
Mar 31, 2011
Me on a mixed route Crisco and I did in Rock Canyon.

Evan Horvath aka Evan1984 wrote:
Also, I think that the name "Links" cam is very telling about the company as a whole considering that it is a rip off of another brand(they should've picked a more reputable name to rip off).


These cams have been around longer than the OP Link cams. I actually bought one of these cams in Kazakhstan in early 2001. The company hadn't started selling them to the US market yet, and I don't know what they're called in Russian. I think their naming it the Links cam wasn't an attempt at copying OP, I think it was just ignorance.

I never used the cams (I ended up buying a couple more in Ukraine a few years later as souvenirs) and I sold them all last year.


FLAG
By JacobD
From Flagstaff, AZ
Mar 31, 2011
Me on Half Dome Boulder, Middle Finger of Fury <br /> <br />Awesome problem!

Rick Blair wrote:
Phil, Since you are into testing Eastern European gear, how about giving these things a go? www.viamontgear.com/gear/tricams/tricams.htm As far as placing gear at gym, is this something they allow or do you do that on the DL? Well I guess not quite on the DL after posting it on MP :-) There are no standards for submitting a review on MP, its the internet, discuss and learn.


I won a set of the wired tri cams at a climbing comp years ago and really like them. They use quality materials and the construction is very professional. The wired part is useful for placing them one handed.

On the other hand I recently go to play around with some of the Gear4Rocks cams and thought they were awful. They felt cheap there were screws sticking out, and they looked like they'd been put together by a middle school science class. I'm not doubting that they would work, but for what they are I don't think they are a good deal.


FLAG
By Phil Lauffen
From The Bubble
Mar 31, 2011
RMNP skiing. Photo by Nodin de Saillan

Sirius wrote:
Thanks for taking the time to write this review. But personally I don't derive any meaningful information from it. A review with integrity is one where the reviewer has not received anything of value from the manufacturer, and the gear has been used and abused in the field for at least a season by an experienced and knowledgeable individual. Climbing is a serious enough game that if these two basic conditions aren't met, the review should be considered tainted. The example of your emphasis on CE certification is a case in point: before Conor Byrne's explanation, neither you nor I nor many reading this thread understood that CE certification is worth balls. If a reviewer is not knowledgeable, she/he has the potential to mislead the community. Worse still, mislead in the interest of the manufacturer, which has a shillish taste to it. Had Conor not corrected, you and I and others would be in the dark. While I appreciate your intention to contribute to the community, I agree with others who are skeptical of the merits of this review. Hope I'm not violating Guideline #1.



No offense taken. Thanks for the comments.

I never said that CE is the same as UIAA. I guess I should have mentioned the distinction. However these cams are loaded to half their maximum rating and are STANDART certified, which from their website is based on UIAA.

I did get these cams for free, but I have no reason to publish a positive review. I'm not getting any more gear from them. I feel like my review honestly pointed out the cams' faults and left it up to the reader to make their own decision whether to purchase or not.

Take my review as it is. I have been climbing for three years and have had the awesome opportunity to climb on many types of gear in many areas. This review is completely my opinion and is not influenced by the manufacturer's desires.


FLAG
By Abram Herman
From Golden, CO
Mar 31, 2011
Viking helmet cover, yep.

Goran Lynch wrote:
I totally agree. It's really abominable that any red-blooded American could possibly support the shoddy quality of BD's non-US production or those cagey brits from DMM/WC instead of the top-notch, quality controlled, made-in-the-USA CCH Aliens.


Win!!!! :D

edit to add: Phil, thanks for taking the time to do both this & the plastic nut review, despite any flak you might get from some participants in the discussion.


FLAG
By erik kapec
From prescott, az
Mar 31, 2011
enjoying the static, grappel and a smoke on Dana...

erik kapec wrote:
Since you got them for free to do a review on, is there any possibility to cut the rubber off? It would be sweet to see the swaging or sleeves or whatever joins the cables together. Pull tests would be pretty sweet too.



Im not trying to be a dick, but I feel a real review should consist of a full on break down of the cams. Cam you test em eh?


FLAG
By Phil Lauffen
From The Bubble
Mar 31, 2011
RMNP skiing. Photo by Nodin de Saillan

erik kapec wrote:
Im not trying to be a dick, but I feel a real review should consist of a full on break down of the cams. Cam you test em eh?


Thanks for the suggestion. I don't really agree though. Just because I got them for free doesn't really justify destroying one to see some swages...


FLAG
By Pete Spri
Mar 31, 2011

While I agree with Base's "buy US made", I have to say, there is definately a niche for a low cost, bomber, simple, US-made, single axle cam line up.

While I like metolius (and wired bliss!), I'd love to have just a simple, single stem, single axle cam that is down-to-earth durable and has some different sizing (I'm not impressed with the new C4's durability, I think they've definately under-engineered them now after seeing some broken ones- though the weight is nice and these exceptions are on the rarer side).

I've also wondered why cam companies havent come up with an "opposite" sizing. IE, take their current line up and simply split the differences of the cams and come with a "staggered" set. That way you could stay with the same brand, but have complimentary sizes.


FLAG
By Evan Sanders
From Westminster, CO
Apr 1, 2011
Flaming Pumpkin

Hey Phil, I didn't own a full set but I owned the teal cam (can't recall the number) and found that after about as many uses as you've put it through it started to take a CCH alien approach to the lobes (i.e. they started to flatten out). I don't know if it's because the material used is close to the material used by CCH, or if it was just my cam. Did you see any of this?

As for the made in America argument going on, don't a majority of companies still have US facilities? I thought BD still had a US manufacturing facility, they just outsourced the R&D to China.


FLAG
By Aric Datesman
Apr 1, 2011

Excellent review and really well done. Makes me happy to see someone approach things with an open mind and realize none of this is rocket science, so while they may look a little rough they'll work just fine.

-aric.


FLAG
By Aric Datesman
Apr 1, 2011

Conor Byrne wrote:
Just a note that CE is by no means UIAA. CE is just a mark from a european governing body that certifies whether or not the equipment is suitable for export/import and complies with european environmental and health standards.


Phil Lauffen wrote:
I never said that CE is the same as UIAA. I guess I should have mentioned the distinction. However these cams are loaded to half their maximum rating and are STANDART certified, which from their website is based on UIAA.


Bit of history for y'all... When the EU decided to form their standards body and went looking at climbing gear they took the easy way out and simply adopted the already developed UIAA standards. So yes, while there are some differences between the UIAA and CE standards, they are in fact very minor. IIRC this is detailed somewhere on the UIAA site.

EDIT- Good discussion here by people that know what they're talking about: rockandice.com/rockandiceforum/21-ask-gear-guy/229-uiaa-vs-c>>>


FLAG
By Jim Titt
From Germany
Apr 2, 2011

Aric Datesman wrote:
Bit of history for y'all... When the EU decided to form their standards body and went looking at climbing gear they took the easy way out and simply adopted the already developed UIAA standards. So yes, while there are some differences between the UIAA and CE standards, they are in fact very minor. IIRC this is detailed somewhere on the UIAA site. EDIT- Good discussion here by people that know what they're talking about: rockandice.com/rockandiceforum/21-ask-gear-guy/229-uiaa-vs-c>>>


Hmm, the EU donīt have a standards body.
The European Norms (standards) are established by CENORM (or CENELEC for electrical goods) which are industry owned standards organisations.
When the EU want to impose regulations on equipment they take the relevant industry standards including ENīs, ISO standards, US (ANSI)ones, Japanese ones etc depending on what they want.
For cams the difference between UIAA and EN is the UIAA require 50% of the stitching to be a contrasting colour if a textile sling is used.

However Iīm suprised that gear for rocks get non full-strength stops and the use of nuts on the axle through CE approval because they donīt like this at all!

Jim


FLAG
By Aric Datesman
Apr 2, 2011

Ah, thanks for the clarification Jim. I was going by memory of what I read a year or so ago and apparently got it wrong. Oops!


FLAG
By Jim Titt
From Germany
Apr 3, 2011

Thatīs o.k. the system is a bit confusing in the EU sometimes where there is a central government and a central civil service that make directives which the member states governments are supposed to include in their legislation. And often donīt or with their own interpretation or more usually by making the laws and not bothering to enforce them!

And the standardisation is a bit of a nightmare, the classic example is the domestic electric plug/socket which a commitee spent 20 years and €200 million deciding on before abandoning the whole idea. We currently have 17 different systems and it looks like staying that way! (A bit of brute force or cutting/drilling usually makes them compatible though).

The maximum allowed curve for bananas has now been dropped so we can import South American ones but the one for cucumbers is still in force!


Incidentally it is proposed to incorporate the ENīs into the ISO so they would then be international but we will wait and see on this one, a lot of vested interests involved and questions of who is going to volounteer to give up power and influence.

Jim


FLAG


Follow replies to this topic? Notify me at the top of web site.
1

Email me.
Page 2 of 4.  <<First   <Prev   1  2  3  4   Next>   Last>>