Gear Failure on West Face Leaning Tower results in whipper.
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Hey all-- |
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wicked dude. glad you didn't die |
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Whoa that is scary. Maybe send the biners to mammut for testing. There is a site you can check what kN force the falling climber generated: myoan.net/climbart/climbfor… |
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Caprinae monkey wrote: Are you saying the bolt the belayer was anchored to also failed? Or just the trad draw clipped to that? Because if the bolt that the belayer was anchored to failed, then the belayer was no longer anchored... and was trying to catch/pulled down by a huge fall force while on a ledge (or worse a hanging belay). Which in that case I think both would have tumbled.No--I was belaying him from a two bolt anchor. He clipped a bolt 5 feet above the anchor and the ropeside biner on that trad draw failed. |
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Wow, now that is a weekend whipper! that's a gnarly rope burn/scrape on your arm/wrist. That's a scary fall, I think if I ever passed the belay, I'd figure it was game over. |
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John D wrote: So 3 rope end biners broke and the bottom one (that was on the bolt) unclipped? was the trad draw on the bolt tripled?three pieces had extended trad draws. the first (c4) must have come unclipped off the draw when he fell--the biner was still on the rope. the next two (a nut and bolt) also had extended trad draws. both biners broke. yeah--we felt lucky. |
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Just out of curiosity, was he freeing that pitch or aiding it? Since you said he weighted a nut i'm assuming he aided that pitch. In that case why only a piece every 10 feet? Backcleaning? That pitch takes small-medium gear in the first 80 or so feet, but definitely C1 all day. The fact that multiple pieces of gear pulled on a crack like that, is just as perplexing to me as a broken biner. Are you sure he was leading with the lead line and not a static haul line? :) |
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So if you hadn't had a grigri, would you have held the fall? Or do you think if you had an ATC, would you have let go of the rope when your hand/wrist got torqued against the wall? |
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The rope side back-clipping out of one piece, then breaking two biners, including one on a bolt? Man, that is the worst luck I have ever heard. |
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wow, that's scary. The impact force of any dynamic rope fall should be way less than what it takes to break a biner, even with the gate open, no? Do you know how many kN those biners were rated to? And how much does the climber weigh? |
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alleyehave wrote:Just out of curiosity, was he freeing that pitch or aiding it? Since you said he weighted a nut i'm assuming he aided that pitch. In that case why only a piece every 10 feet? Backcleaning? That pitch takes small-medium gear in the first 80 or so feet, but definitely C1 all day. The fact that multiple pieces of gear pulled on a crack like that, is just as perplexing to me as a broken biner. Are you sure he was leading with the lead line and not a static haul line? :) EDIT: Sorry, just read your post clarifying. A couple more questions, 7 years old and taken good care of, im assuming no drops of any kind and you're the original owner? If yes to both, I would definitely send them in ASAP to Mammut.The question about the static line is a really good one, any chance of that? I think everyone would really like that to be the answer, because the alternative is kind of terrifying! I don't know what to think about people's concern regarding "trad draws"...two biners connected by a sling has been a pretty standard thing to do for about 90 years, and has held quite a lot of falls without an outcome like this...should we be switching to 24" dogbones? |
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Could you take a picture of the fractured surface of the broken biner, under a Macro lens/setting if you have one? Would love to see that to better get an understanding of how it failed. Oh, yeah, glad you are all safe! |
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I posted this on RC.com too, but I find this VERY hard to believe. A biner unclipping and TWO (rope side) biners breaking in one fall. Each of those events in incredibly unlikely, much less all three happening. Either you have the worst luck in the world, you have defective gear, someone out there really hates you and messed with your gear, or you've made the whole thing up. If this is real, I'd certainly contact Mammut and see if they want the biner(s); and glad to hear you're both ok. |
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Wow... glad u kids are safe!! Good point about going through the anchor and way to make a vid just afterwards to keep the details fresh. Please report back with any updates... Lots will be watching this one. |
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Same question as bargainhunter, do you think you could have held the fall with an ATC? |
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Caprinae monkey wrote: There is a site you can check what kN force the falling climber generated: .Sorry if my last post was confusing. The Myoan calculator doesn't calculate fall factor properly. If you (for example) put in 80KG climber 30' rope 10' above last piece Dynamic Rope you *should* get Fall Factor 0.66 (not 1.33) Force on climber and force on the top piece depend on a lot of factors, but using some standard numbers, you'd get 5.8kN on the climber 9.7kN on the piece Which are both probably much higher than actual forces due to a number of force-reducing things which are too numerous and difficult to account for. Reducing (increasing) the weight of the climber in the calculations reduces (increases) the forces by a couple of tenths of a kN. |
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"I posted this on RC.com too, but I find this VERY hard to believe".
Only the LINK you posted takes you to a LAW FIRM, not, RC.n00b. As to the OP and such... WOW! Talk about some shit happening. Seems to be quite a bit of FAILURE that took place. STRANGE! |
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Locker wrote:"I posted this on RC.com too, but I find this VERY hard to believe". Only the LINK you posted takes you to a LAW FIRM, not, RC.n00b. As to the OP and such... WOW! Talk about some shit happening. Seems to be quite a bit of FAILURE that took place. STRANGE!On the plus side, a law firm probably has more to do with climbing than that site ;). Crazy whipper! |
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Biners break more often than people think...the gate-open strength of a typical biner can be exceeded in lots of falls. Not to mention the biner slapping against the rock, pinched in a corner, etc. The reason you don't hear about it more often is that people tend not to take hard falls. You have to assume that any biner will be loaded gate-open, even with wire gates (although they are much less likely to vibrate or slap open). |
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Greg Barnes wrote: Another friend climbed with a well known member of a major European climbing safety board - and that guy would clip any crux bolt with two opposite and opposed biners...rope side or bolt side or both? I haven't heard about a locked biner breaking yet, so couldn't he just use a locking biner? |
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I hadn't realized issues with trad draws were so common. I had one cross-load at Seneca a month ago, but never really considered it a concern before that ( mountainproject.com/v/senec… ). I came out of it with a broken wrist and a concussion, so maybe I'll keep trad draw failure in mind now. |