How realistic is it that a non-wire gate quickdraw will open during a fall because of gate flutter? I know everyone gives that example of a solid beaner gate clicking when you hit it against your hand but how realistic is this ?

gate flutter wont actually 'open' the gate of a biner (btw- beaner is a racial slur...) in and of itself.

in regular sport climbing scenarios where the draw is hanging free of obstructions and you're falling normally, its nothing to worry about.

It's realistic......

It happened to me and the Caribiner (PC) broke....

I know I can be sarcastic, but I'm sincerely interested in this.

Jim can you describe the scenario in which you took your fall/broke a carabiner? What brand of carabiner was it if I may ask?

A good friend of mine took a nasty fall of 150 feet from the top of an aid route. Something like 14 pieces of gear were left securely placed in the crack
, but gate flutter had allowed the rope to exit all his bimers as he fell!He was caught by an offset brass nut 15 feet above the ledge that would have taken his life... don't use anything buy wire gates.

or did I possibly miss your sarcasm?

I used to have printed copies of the monographs that documented (via high-speed photography) gate flutter; threw them away many years ago. I don't recall the circumstances/conditions that can cause it to happen, but I distinctly remember that it can happen.

I love sarcasm but BITD John bouchard at Wild Things did a lot of testing on this matter along with some groups in france. I'm not sure if any of the data is still out there, but it was shocking footage to see in slo mo.

Quite a few years ago I had a rope unclip itself from the carabiner during a lead fall, fortunately it was the placement below the top gear placement. I placed a sideways stopper, clipped in a fairly stiff quickdraw, and continued up a ways before placing another piece. I came off shortly after placing that piece, and when I came to a stop I realized that the piece below the one that held me was not clipped into the rope. This was a fairly low angle climb for the grade (Dr. Feelgood, Glacier Point Apron, Yosemite National Park). I can only conclude that the carabiner got smacked against the rock as I came off, and the momentum developed by the gate as the carabiner hit the rock held the gate open long enough for the rope to make it's way out of the carabiner. The combination of a sideways stopper placement and a stiff sport climbing quickdraw seems to have been the culprit. The carabiner was held at 90° to the rock, and as the rope whipped through the biner it smacked the biner against the rock hard enough to open the gate and let the rope unclip itself.

Lessons learned:
1. If something can go wrong, it will (you knew that already, right?).
2. Don't use stiff sport climbing draws with sideways stopper placements. In fact, don't use stiff, sport climbing draws on any low angle climbs.
3. Use wire gates to clip the rope, the gates are not heavy enough to develop a lot of momentum and stay open long enough for the rope to escape the carabiner.

i read a report several years ago about a biner breaking during a traversing slab fall. the conclusion/theory was that as the biner scraped across the slab, it caused the gate to vibrate and become loaded in a gate-open configuration.

also, first hand i witnessed a guy fall twice in a row and have the rope come out of his carabiner. i was literally 5 feet above at a belay, lookng down the crack, and saw that he clipped correctly. he fell, somehow the gate opened and the rope came out. he looked up and said "did that just happen? was i backclipped?". i responded that it did indeed happen, but that he definitely wasn't backclipped. he climbed back up, clipped again, fell, and the same thing happened. he down-aided the route.

My above comment was not sarcasm, but fact. He hadn't backcliped any pieces, it was all gate flutter. Also, in regards to a biner skidding across a slab. And opening due to vibration, its possible as well. Perhaps more common and quite dangerous in this situation is when a biners gate nose protrudes enough from its notch that while slidding on a rock slab it catches on a nubby protrusion and opens, thereby weakening your biner. Make sure this cannot happen with the biners you use.

solid gate, looked like a typical offset D, maybe a BD, petzl spirit, or something similar.