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Frost Nip

Original Post
randy88fj62 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2010 · Points: 291

Was ice climbing this past weekend in the coldest weather I have ever experienced in my life (I'm from California.) The weather was -15°F as we hit the trail at dawn.

Ice climbed all day in temps below 20°F and my right foot never truly warmed up.

Fast forward 5 days to this afternoon and my right big toe has numbness at the tip. Feels like it's asleep. There is no noticable difference in appearance between my big toes. Pressing on both big toes I see the blood rush back at the same rate.

How long can I expect this frost nip to stay? Other than keeping it warm and watching it, is there anything I can do to expedite the healing process?

I was in Koflach plastic boots with old open cell foam liners. I will be upgrading to closed cell foam liners before my next winter outing.

So, who has had frost nip? Any input would be great. The health tips via google don't say jack about frost nip other than it exists...

Jason Wong · · Los Angeles, CA · Joined Apr 2008 · Points: 10

Here's an article from Climbing that just came out.

climbing.com/skill/prevent-…

I'm not sure there is much more you can do. As long as it doesn't hurt, I wouldn't worry too much.

JW

Sir Wanksalot · · County Jail · Joined Sep 2011 · Points: 10
Ryan Hill · · Denver, CO · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 30

It happens and over time, as it happens more often, your feet(or at least mine) become more susceptible to the cold. Not much you can do other than preventative measures next time you are out. Feeling will return over time (after one particularly bad epic overnight I lost feeling in my big toes for two months). Sounds like upgrading your liners is a good idea.

David Appelhans · · Broomfield, CO · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 410

I've had it last a couple months. No adverse affects after that, unless that is why my toes hurt alot when there is pressure on the big toenail from climbing shoes.

Buff Johnson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2005 · Points: 1,145

it's not frost nip; sounds more like poor circulation for some reason, poor fitting boots or whatever

John D · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 10

I had the same thing happen a couple of summers ago after spending 2 weeks in wet shoes and socks in snow and temperatures above and below freezing. My toes were numb for about a month, but now they're back to normal.

If you're really concerned about it, you can talk to a Dr. about some medicine that will dilate your blood vessels and improve your circulation and speed healing.

H BL · · Colorado · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 95

Were your boots tight at all? Maybe a nerve impingement? Try some whiskey? Did you try popping your big toe?

I got minor frostbite from winter survival school while trying to dig out a snow cave with a flipping e-tool just wearing my wool inserts (idiot). Hands have never been the same since. Weather drops below 60 and it's hard for me to climb rock, especially if it's in the shade. Have several pairs of gloves for ice climbing that are ok, but my hands get cold & clublike anyway. The nerves in my hands are damaged I believe. Reynauds Syndrome.

Sucks ass!

Graham Johnson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 0

This does not sound like frost nip - this sounds like "bang toe". Repeated pressure on toes (either from banging into the front of the boot, or constant pressure against the front of the boot, or some other cause) causes them to go numb. It can last weeks/months. Nothing you can really do to speed up recovery to my knowledge. Usually results from poor fitting boots. Bang toe is a nerve injury. It will heal, eventually.

Cold injuries (frostbite/nip) result in damage to tissue. If you can't see any visible difference between your "normal" toe and your affected toe, it's probably not cold-related. The fact that your CRT (capillary refill time - a measure of how well the blood vessels in the tissue are carrying blood) is the same between both says that there is also no tissue damage (otherwise the blood vessels would be damaged too). They also usually hurt a fair bit once they thaw out.

For what it's worth, I have had bang toe, frost nip and frostbite. And I know a bit about how bodies work.

M Best · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 25

Graham probably diagnosed this one as toe bang. After my first 4 day long ice climbing trip I had the same issue...Took about 3 weeks and it was back to normal. If I remember correct I had a day or two of that tingling feeling you get when your foot "falls asleep".

Found out that my second hand boots that I thought were a 13 were a 12.5 and despite having worn them on a few mountaineering trips it wasn't until I was kicking hard ice that the problem came up.

randy88fj62 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2010 · Points: 291
Graham Johnson wrote:This does not sound like frost nip - this sounds like "bang toe". Repeated pressure on toes (either from banging into the front of the boot, or constant pressure against the front of the boot, or some other cause) causes them to go numb. It can last weeks/months. Nothing you can really do to speed up recovery to my knowledge. Usually results from poor fitting boots. Bang toe is a nerve injury. It will heal, eventually. Cold injuries (frostbite/nip) result in damage to tissue. If you can't see any visible difference between your "normal" toe and your affected toe, it's probably not cold-related. The fact that your CRT (capillary refill time - a measure of how well the blood vessels in the tissue are carrying blood) is the same between both says that there is also no tissue damage (otherwise the blood vessels would be damaged too). They also usually hurt a fair bit once they thaw out. For what it's worth, I have had bang toe, frost nip and frostbite. And I know a bit about how bodies work.
I hope you're right Graham. The Koflach boots I bought were not tight fitting. They were just a tad big. It is possible that since my toes were numb that I could have slammed it into the ice.

Thanks for all the input everyone. I'll report back as it heals.
randy88fj62 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2010 · Points: 291

FYI:
Feeling is slowly coming back. No skin ever peeled off so I'm guessing it was "bang toe" as you call it.

Kate Fagan · · Daylesford, Vic Australia · Joined Apr 2017 · Points: 0

Years ago after walking (hiking) for 3 months in Nepal, during some time above 5000 meters and very cold feet , frozen boots...

several of my toes became numb. They weren't really sore just a bit pink and very cold. After warming up the tips remained numb tingly

for months. I wasn't sure if it was banging my toes (eloquently named "toe bang") mild frost nip/bite until last week.

We took our four children to walk the overland track in Tasmania Australia. The first day we hit a blizzard and were nearly blown off

the track with horizontal rain, snow and hail. I gave my gloves to our daughter because her hands were cold and her gloves were wet.

My fingers went numb with cold and I struggled to make tea and undo zips etc etc. When they warmed up the tips were numb /tingly/sore and they still are!

De ja vu from 20 years earlier. I have that feeling it will take time to restore my fingers and I have learnt a very important lesson.

Thank you

Jim Bernard · · Westport, MA · Joined Oct 2015 · Points: 25

I am not a doctor (nor have I recently stayed in a Holiday Inn Express) so take this diagnosis with all the seriousness of what you paid for it. Does not sound like toe bang or frost nip to me. Sounds to me like cold induced peripheral neuropathy. Cold caused nerve damage in you toe/foot. I have had it several times. The worst time it took about 2 months to fully resolve. But it did fully resolve. Most of the time it takes 2-5 days. Like almost any temperature injury (cold or heat) you will almost certainly be more susceptible to it from now on. I am prone to it on the large toe of my right foot. I just try to manage my feet temp better now when I am out in the cold. Good luck.

lukeweiss · · St. Johnsbury, VT · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 30

You animals gotta stop all the toe banging. 

Kate Fagan · · Daylesford, Vic Australia · Joined Apr 2017 · Points: 0

Thanks JB. I'm no doctor and I haven't even heard of Holiday Inn Express :-) but Dr Google couldn't find info on cold induced peripheral neuropathy. I'm with "H" and think it might be frostnip induced Reynauds Syndrome..... my fingertips will not warm up! but will check with the Doc this week. cheers

lukeweiss · · St. Johnsbury, VT · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 30

I AM staying in a holiday inn express currently, and I say Reynauds is a good guess. Disappointed that there will be no more toe banging though. 

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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